Random MIDI pitch bend and transpose

[aod_]

Very recently, I’ve encountered random issues in Ableton with the pitch/key of recorded and playback of MIDI notes randomly changing.
It’s basically the same as this description on Reddit from a couple of years ago.

I’ve been doing a combination of playing in MIDI notes on my controller keyboard and drawing them with the mouse.

The first thing I noticed was some of the sounds I’ve been using appeared to be out of tune with each other, or with the guide track I’m using. I just assumed the samples were a bit out of tune, so tried to match different tracks by manually transposing them a semitone or two.

This seemed OK at first, but then as the track grew, it started playing back notes in wildly different keys to what I originally recorded them at, or even played back a few moments ago. Also it seemed like random pitch bends were being put in, when playing back. On some occasions the pitch bend would be consistently there, and other times would disappear completely.

I had checked the automation lanes and on a couple of instances there were a few pitch bend messages there, but I cleared the envelope and it seemed OK. I didn’t put in any pitch bend when recording.

Then it would happen again, randomly.

Now the track is a bit of a mess as I can’t work out what is in tune, what is transposed correctly or what is being randomly changed every few minutes.
I’m using Ableton Live 11 Intro, with a Novation Impulse 49.

The controller keyboard is just under 3 years old with very light use over that time.

One thing I have noticed over these few years is that some of the faders on the keyboard occasionally twitch between 0-1 (or another value, but usually only in 1-2 step increments, viewing on the LCD screen), so I guess some there is a lack of some physical robustness with these controls. Not sure if this can then develop with other buttons such as transpose or pitch bend? I did read a post that someone said they had to clean the controls every few weeks or something….

Anyway, I’m just looking for peoples experiences to figure out if this is a software or hardware issue and what my options are to resolve it. I really my Impulse Controller so didn’t particularly want to replace it, but if I have to, I will consider it.

[aod_]

After a bit more troubleshooting, i thought I had narrowed the issue down to the pitch bend wheel on my controller keyboard.

I noticed that there was potentially a correlation with me tapping the transport and channel/mute/solo buttons on the controller with periods when this strange phenomenon would occur. This was mostly retrospective as it was hard to replicate on demand, as the issue usually occurred shortly after tapping any buttons, or the keyboard case / desk itself. But it wasn't consistent.

Having read about these keyboards online, I decided to open up the keyboard and unplugged the pitch bend wheel.

Initially i thought it had fixed it, but then more notes started randomly bending or transposing after a few seconds of playback.

I'm going to do more testing with the keyboard completely unplugged, but still perplexed at what is causing this?

Also, is there a way to disable pitch bend/transpose during playback in Ableton?

[yur2die4]

This can be tricky. Is it pitchbend or is it transpose?
If transpose, then some transposition or pitch parameters would be changed on a device. Or a midi device could introduce surprises.

If it’s pitchbend, it’ll only revert back to Zero in a clip if there is an automation node setting it to Zero. If a clip has a pitchbend offset that is not resolved before a new clip is played, the pitch will remain offset.

[aod_]

Many thanks.

I spent over an hour last night on the track I was working on, with the keyboard unplugged.

No pitch / transposing issues, so sounds like it more than likely is something weird going on with the MIDI controller keyboard.

I might try disconnecting the transpose buttons as well, although I think it could be something else causing it as notes did seem to randomly bend with the pitch bend disconnected anyway.

Thanks for the tip about the automation node - does that mean if a track was recorded with unintended pitch bends, and I cleared the pitch bend envelope in the automation, it still needs setting to zero regardless?

I still think the issue is pitch bend (and maybe transpose), doing stuff during playback rather than when recording, as it's a very random / inconsistent effect.

[yur2die4]

Yes. That is what I mean. So if the keyboard was causing pitch bend automation, and then you unplugged the keyboard and played back the Old clips, it would also potentially make other clips play back offset if the old clip with the automation is played before it.

So having the keyboard unplugged and removing the automations is probably what’s helping. And keeping the keyboard unplugged is keeping it consistent. But there should be ways to work while still using your keyboard… but a few factors to take into account.

[aod_]

I think what I'm trying to establish, is if there is a fault with my controller keyboard, or something in Ableton that I don't understand.

My keyboard is just about in warranty, so I want to figure this out ASAP, so I can contact Novation to put a warranty claim in. Not sure where to go from here.

[aod_]

OK, so I've done lots more testing.

It's still hard to pin-point it, but i can confirm the issue doesn't happen with a different keyboard.

I've spent some time just tinkering, recording some tracks of piano, and at some random points, part of the track went up 1 semi-tone.

I managed to find evidence of this being captured in Ableton in the screengrab below.



I did not play this pitch bend / use the pitch bend when recording, but it's clearly there.

The controller is nearly 24 months into a 36 month warranty, so I'm going to see if I can get Novation to sort it out as the keyboard is nearly unusable with this fault.

[Fun2Drum]

Hi,
I recently experienced the same effect. I played a Piano part (via AKAI MPK 249) as MIDI and while relpay something randomly transposes notes.
This happens also when the AKAI is switched off. So my first thought also was that Ableton has a funky feature that causes this.
I continue looking and keep you updated

Chers
Chis

[Tszpun]

it just happened to me this morning with Live 10 Suite. after a long late nights work, everything's suddenly out of tune the next morning when picking it up.

There's no pitch bend automation on the arrangement lane, no pitch bend automation on the midi clip. Somehow spent a few hours checking everything, restart etc, finally resolved by click on the unlink button on every midi clips (not every one got the linked button lite up). Every problem clips only show Pitch Bend when click on "Only show adjusted envelopes", but it's dotted lines so there's no real automation is working.

Very strange behaviour.

[chapelier fou]

may I ask what is out of tune ? You wrote “everything” but could you be more precise ? Hardware ? Software?

[Kallie]

I am having this very same issue, and am in Ableton 11 Suite. I have done the following to no avail:
-Updated the drivers of my Audio Interface
-Replicated the issue with VST and Audio Units, along with Ableton stock instruments
-Replicated the issue with alternate controllers (one with out pitch bend/mod wheels) and alternate cables
-Reset Ableton
-Checked Sample rate was consistent with audio card and audio interface and Ableton

I have issues when I trigger notes, not even playing back a recording (Although that sometimes too), just taking a blank session, putting any instrument down, and playing a few notes. Its sporadic and random when it will suddenly start to pitch bend/transpose notes all over the place. This has been happening in other sessions so is not session specific.

I am at my wits end and on a time crunch. If anyone has any other ideas please let me know.

[gregomusic]

This is also happening to me. I'll just be playing piano and suddenly it tunes down a half step. Can't figure out why.

[ufouap]

Hi,
Could you try put the m4l midi device before your synth a couple of day to see if this correct your problem ?
Don’t forget to untick buttons :
“PB DN” and “PB UP”

https://www.maxforlive.com/library/inde ... Mxl+filter


Cheers
U