Making group affect sligtly the sound

[Nicolas987]

Hello,

This is a problem wich is perfectionism :
My problem is that a track with effect sound sliglty different that the same track that you have grouped.
You can try by yourself if you make just one note of a midi bass to be sure that you have exacly the same sound everytime. Do a copy of the track and group this copy. The sound is the same until now, but if you have some effect like eq and compressor, that you put on the original track and on the top group track then, the sound is different, sligtly brighter, clear, punchy and dry on the non-grouped track. We can even see that the compressor don’t compress at the same level. And i have to change the volume and edit the note to be smaller to sound closer than the original, but i don’t arrive to have exactly the same sound.
It’s like the effect don’t react the same when there is this sending of track.

This is a big problem for me, and the reason i stayed on pro tools one years ago. Now, i really want to work with ableton because of the midi facilities but i really want to resolve this problem. I can’t stand that every time i group tracks the sound is deterioreted/changed.

Did i miss something ? Do you have the same problem ? Can we make something or not ?

Thanks

Nicolas

[JasonW]

Hi Nicholas,
Not totally sure I understand your question. But I wonder if you are ending up with two of the same effects in series? Meaning you have a compressor on the original channel, and then one on the group channel. So the signal is going through 2 stages of compression. Normally, an effect would go on either the sub-channel or the main channel, but not both (unless you were going for some specific effect). In this situation, it sounds like you may have it on both?

Thanks,
Jason

[Nicolas987]

Hi Nicholas,
Not totally sure I understand your question. But I wonder if you are ending up with two of the same effects in series? Meaning you have a compressor on the original channel, and then one on the group channel. So the signal is going through 2 stages of compression. Normally, an effect would go on either the sub-channel or the main channel, but not both (unless you were going for some specific effect). In this situation, it sounds like you may have it on both?

Thanks,
Jason

Thanks fo the reply Jason,

No, no, i speak well about :
- One track with effects on it
Compare to
- One track empty of effect, but in a group where are the same effects.
They sounds differents and they shouldn’t.

[JasonW]

Yeah, that is really weird. I agree with you, those shouldn't sound different! Seems like there has to be a setting or some routing that is making this happen.

Do you by chance have a screen capture video of the issue happening?

[Nicolas987]

Yeah, that is really weird. I agree with you, those shouldn't sound different! Seems like there has to be a setting or some routing that is making this happen.

Do you by chance have a screen capture video of the issue happening?

I made pics, but i don’t know how to share with you on this forum… it's seems to accept only image from an URL, no ?
But i think i have already all try : all the pre, post… mix. All the in, auto, off.
All the volume, because i put the normal volume for a comparaison for the pics, but it’s better when it’s 1,4 db below and 4,4 db above of the group and then also the compressor react more of less the same way.
I even try to put on send the above track of the group and it was way worst.

I also tryed to make group differently, by just create a new track 2, and send the origninal track 1 to track 2, wich is different but also not exactly the same :

But i confirm this is really a detail in the sound. We are way far from a problem like you said with 2 times the compression for exemple. It’s something that an ear non used could find normal.

Nicolas

[Nicolas987]

Yeah, that is really weird. I agree with you, those shouldn't sound different! Seems like there has to be a setting or some routing that is making this happen.

Do you by chance have a screen capture video of the issue happening?

Moreover, if it would be a problem of setting or some routing, it would be not the same sound if there were no effect at all.

[JasonW]

Well, glad it's not a major sound problem at least!

[Nicolas987]

Well, glad it's not a major sound problem at least!

^-^ Yeah, but the problem for me is that i begin a totaly new projet in electronic music instead of doing rock music like i used to do in pro tools, so i have to reconstruct all my base mix project on ableton, and i have 10 compositions wich have to be rebuild in a decent mix (more clean), so i have to do a lot of regrouping track, and the sound was already well advanced. It’s about reworking 50 times on sound that i have already parametered.
And when you want the best, minimal deterioration is a big problem.

[Nicolas987]

Nobody else can said something ?
So i have to conclude that it’s a bug from Ableton ?
And i have to make with that…