Losing my mind with Live's poor midi device system

[scruffyfox]

I've been a Live user for years, since 9. The last few years i've been using Live for live performance, creating various different live sets, templates, and projects with various different hardware and software devices but one thing that has been consistent over this time is the absolute piss poor midi device system. Im currently at this point _again_ for maybe the 4th time where after a few months of perfect performance, Live all of a sudden decides it doesnt want to recognise my devices properly, or properly connect them to the set resulting in me having to spend time going through _every single track_ to reset the device and channel. I built a standalone PC specifically to reduce the amount of external noise/issues that comes with Windows, but alas I still have this problem. Lately my push2 has been refusing to work properly when a live set is loaded. It will not correctly display any parameter value until it has been adjusted - will simply display the default value. Although restarting the push after the project has been loaded does fix this issue on the push, IT DISCONNECTS EVERY OTHER DEVICE.

Im losing my mind here




here's a video of this nonsense https://youtu.be/SS9ueFh5YRs - after the project is loaded for the second time you can see the devices connect - but my push2 needs to be restarted because none of the parameter values are showing correctly. Restarting it completely screws up all my devices.... again.

Notice how it says these devices are disconnected yet they are IN THE LIST??? why is Live like this? why does my midi I/O constantly reset my MidiMix despite me specifically removing it from the control script setting? the only way to force ableton to stop loading the remote script is to delete it. But every single update it comes back??

I've tried:

Uninstalling + reinstalling Live
Uninstalling ALL my midi devices
Changing the USB ports of all devices
Turning off all devices, starting live, turning them on one by one
Opening a blank project and loading my project after
Rebuilding my entire project
Fixing the device selections, saving, and restarting

Most devices are run through a hub, except the push and a couple others. This has not been an issue for so long so I doubt its that, besides, the devices WORK when they are set, its just Live refusing to properly connect back to them.

Im running 12.1 on a windows 10 22H2. 64gb ram, ryzen 5600X - like i said, this is a dedicated PC I have built and only has Live, REAPER, and a couple of streaming software running.

Has ANYONE else had this issue? is the ONLY thing I can do a full OS reinstall? like i said, i am actually losing my mind over this

[x3000]

In my experience, USB hubs tend to cause problems, especially if they are passive.

[scruffyfox]

nope, active powered hub. doesn't explain the issue with the push though. feels like this is what's causing the overall problem because when I restart it to solve the parameter value issue, it throws all the other devices off. I still had issues similar to this when using a pcie usb card

[josefreak]

I’ve had issues similar to this in the past, and my issue was due to Windows disconnecting usb ports. I had to uncheck “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” for each of the usb devices I was using (particularly a hub). This setting can be found in the Device Manager properties for the usb device. I also went into Power Options control panel and disabled “USB Selective Suspend” settings. And just for good measure, I went into the BIOS and disabled USB sleep in the power section. After those tweaks, the issues I was having with my devices went away.

[scruffyfox]

I’ve had issues similar to this in the past, and my issue was due to Windows disconnecting usb ports. I had to uncheck “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” for each of the usb devices I was using (particularly a hub). This setting can be found in the Device Manager properties for the usb device. I also went into Power Options control panel and disabled “USB Selective Suspend” settings. And just for good measure, I went into the BIOS and disabled USB sleep in the power section. After those tweaks, the issues I was having with my devices went away.

would this be my issue though? It happens on first launch from a fresh boot, but even then, simply turning off a device once Live has loaded will cause other devices to appear as disconnected in the midi input on tracks, but still appear in the actual list. unless i turn things on in a very specific order, things dont connect/refresh/show as connected properly and then i have to spend tons of time going back through every track to reset not only the device, but also the midi track (because of course ableton resets to "all channels" when you change a device......)

[Cypeace]

All drivers for chipset and bios are up to date?

[scruffyfox]

All drivers for chipset and bios are up to date?

Yep. The issue is that ableton isnt properly connecting to the device when it refreshes its device list (like when turning on a device after a project is loaded). I have to do this with the push because having it on and loading a project wont load all the parameter values on the push correctly so has to be restarted, but restarting it will cause all my other devices to display as "disconnected" despite being in the list, and despite having shown as connected before restarting the push.

This surely cant be an issue with something im doing?!

[scruffyfox]

Update: did a complete FRESH install of ableton (via https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... ve-Windows and even uninstalling the push device via device manager) and im still having this issue with the push and the subsequent "disconnected devices" after restarting it.

[scruffyfox]

Update: Tried the push on a second machine and im still experiencing the same issue.

Open project with push turned on before -> all parameters display as default (fader, sends, etc) on the push.

Open project and THEN turn push on -> fine - but consequentially causes all my other inputs to "disconnect"

I've also tried this on the latest beta and is still happening.

[scruffyfox]

Update: I have been able to 'stabilise' my project (after spending a day uninstalling, reinstalling ableton 11, 12, 12.1, 12 beta, and all my device drivers) by;

1) turning on all devices before booting the machine
2) opening a blank default template (the push will show all values as default but the template will have all the faders set to -inf)
3) opening a "devices" project that has a track for every device configuration (inputs and outputs) and some midi mappings to test my controllers
4) opening my actual project.

So far doing this has a 100% success rate in ensuring all my devices are properly connected and configured.

[scruffyfox]

An interesting observation:

During a liveset, my sequencer device (also the main clock) shut down. Reconnecting the device caused three of my tracks to no longer be "connected" to their output/input devices. Fixed this (whilst live...) and then saved the project at the end of the set.

Re-opened the set today using the above procedure showed the same devices as no longer connected. Loading the project from a backup taken a day before opened absolutely fine.

So it seems to me like Live projects are saving and recalling very specific device ordering, and if those devices are not in/connected the correct order then they do not connect (despite being available, and showing in the list). This is obviously a big problem if a device needs to be restarted. This also could maybe be an issue with Windows and how it deals with USB devices?

[stringtapper]

I’ve had issues similar to this in the past, and my issue was due to Windows disconnecting usb ports. I had to uncheck “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” for each of the usb devices I was using (particularly a hub). This setting can be found in the Device Manager properties for the usb device. I also went into Power Options control panel and disabled “USB Selective Suspend” settings. And just for good measure, I went into the BIOS and disabled USB sleep in the power section. After those tweaks, the issues I was having with my devices went away.

would this be my issue though? It happens on first launch from a fresh boot, but even then, simply turning off a device once Live has loaded will cause other devices to appear as disconnected in the midi input on tracks, but still appear in the actual list. unless i turn things on in a very specific order, things dont connect/refresh/show as connected properly and then i have to spend tons of time going back through every track to reset not only the device, but also the midi track (because of course ableton resets to "all channels" when you change a device......)

Any reason you’re not trying this suggestion? Seems like it’s at least worth a shot.

(God, I love CoreMIDI…)

[scruffyfox]

I’ve had issues similar to this in the past, and my issue was due to Windows disconnecting usb ports. I had to uncheck “Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power” for each of the usb devices I was using (particularly a hub). This setting can be found in the Device Manager properties for the usb device. I also went into Power Options control panel and disabled “USB Selective Suspend” settings. And just for good measure, I went into the BIOS and disabled USB sleep in the power section. After those tweaks, the issues I was having with my devices went away.

would this be my issue though? It happens on first launch from a fresh boot, but even then, simply turning off a device once Live has loaded will cause other devices to appear as disconnected in the midi input on tracks, but still appear in the actual list. unless i turn things on in a very specific order, things dont connect/refresh/show as connected properly and then i have to spend tons of time going back through every track to reset not only the device, but also the midi track (because of course ableton resets to "all channels" when you change a device......)

Any reason you’re not trying this suggestion? Seems like it’s at least worth a shot.

(God, I love CoreMIDI…)

Yep this is one of the first things I tried doing and something I generally do with new setups anyway.

[scruffyfox]

Seems like im not the only one having this problem

viewtopic.php?p=1829992
viewtopic.php?t=251379
viewtopic.php?p=1830204

[scruffyfox]

Update:

I have performed a COMPLETE fresh install of windows, Live 12.5.1 (no extra plugins, software, drivers) and still experience the exact same issues with devices showing as disconnected after power cycling something