Ableton Notation / Score Editor

[heybuddy]

I would also love this!

[codekiln]

I don't have any meaningful experience using score support in other DAWs. As someone with experience in classical music, Ableton feels conspicuously handicapped when it comes to communicating and representing harmonic and rhythmic intent. It feels strange to me, as though someone decided to make literature writing software using international phonetic alphabet or some sound-based representation rather than using the visual conventions writers have used for centuries.

Ideally, for me, each MIDI clip editor would have a score view, with optional annotation overlays for automation or other curves. Then the arrangement view would have a score view that looks - wait for it - like a score one could read, e.g. like a symphony score.

Audio clips could have their waveform transcribed in lieu of a stave, and preferably one could put an icon on a waveform to represent the sound.

[jonljacobi]

Just a guess mind you, but Ableton is likely dealing with a whole lot of users that don't read music. For the more classically trained, you're better off with a notation program that outputs MIDI files and using LIve for the rest. Not saying I wouldn't love to have notation. It's the way I was raised.

[iainduncan]

+1, would love to be able to look at multiple tracks on a score!

[jonbongjovi]

+1 I'm a little amazed that ableton still haven't implemented at least a basic score visualisation. I mean its not a big deal to implement in Max https://octoechos.com/index.php?route=p ... uct_id=117

I don't understand why such a simple thing that all other DAWs have. It doesn't have to be a detailed implementation but yes its probably time at least a token Notation/Score was included .

[jlgrimes]

+1 I'm a little amazed that ableton still haven't implemented at least a basic score visualisation. I mean its not a big deal to implement in Max https://octoechos.com/index.php?route=p ... uct_id=117

I don't understand why such a simple thing that all other DAWs have. It doesn't have to be a detailed implementation but yes its probably time at least a token Notation/Score was included .

I guess a good score editor takes alot of resources.

Being able to program as well as having someone with a good understanding of musical notation. Also a poor implementation would probably be harshly criticized. But yes this was pretty much a requirement back in the old school computer midi sequencers probably because of score writers (Compose score, print out music, give to orchestra to learn).

I would think more piano roll refinements and ARA would be bigger priorities. But at some point, Notation will be the only missing thing as Ableton now have a decent scale system. Only a matter of time before they add Chords and then maybe a guitar tab system.

[jonljacobi]

Yeah, but I may be dead by the time it arrives... Not a priority for the average Live user I'd guess.

[nonchai]

I think a far better solution for scoring is to support export to tons and DAWs who have supported scoring etc for decades.

So adding a means to export to Pro Tools, Cubase, Sibelius etc - would achieve this.

Although I would like to see Ableotn add support for better handing of orchestra libraries and also support for Articulation maps, I think there is no need and a waste of developer resource to ad score viewing, and engraving stuff into ableton.

I made a small YouTube video summarising *my* particular list of missing features - as described in my earlier reply here.

Please like and share etc.. if you want to get something hopefully done about all this in - say - Live 12 ...

Its titled. 'Ableton: Whats missing for Orchestra/Media Composers?
5 Features and a minute of your time:'

https://youtu.be/UL_thHi6deA

[mpowrie]

A deep integration with the free and opensource music notation software MuseScore could be great!
Both the Ableton and Musescore communities would benefit, and there could be some interesting opportunities from this.

[Hooxx]

Yes please!!!

[Slow Hand]

It looks like I'm in the minority here, but I would expressly NOT like a notation editor in Ableton. Despite being someone who regularly notates songs in MuseScore (shoutout).

My reason is this: Adding a notation editor is likely to bloat the software and be a tradeoff against what I consider to be Ableton's unique value proposition: That it is a powerful, streamlined tool for capturing musical ideas quickly while also functioning as a live performance and improvisational tool. Ableton's power is it's (relative) simplicity for these tasks.

To add a notation system to Ableton would be like adding a TV monitor for watching movies to an F1 race car. It would burden the software and work against what makes it so compelling in the first place. If you want to watch movies while driving, perhaps what you really ought to be looking at is a minivan or at least a Rolls Royce. These vehicles/DAWs are fundamentally optimized for different tasks and I think it's in Ableton's best interest to not try and implement every possible feature. Stick to what they already do well.

Someone here did suggest better exporting and integration between Ableton and existing notation software. THAT I would encourage. No harm in having better communication/integration between two pieces of software.

It's hard enough to build a good piece of notation software by itself. In fact it's extremely complicated and most of the big commercial offerings are pretty flawed and terrible to use. I don't think people appreciate the level of complexity that they're asking Ableton to introduce into the software when they request a musical notation feature.

[jonljacobi]

I can understand the sentiment above about bloat and being on-task. I wouldn't necessarily want a full-blown scoring application, but simply notational entry and for that matter, guitar tab, and drum-style entry.

Full notation and scoring is vastly complex and would take a lot of time and resources to implement. And no doubt bloat Live's code base which I absolutely don't want.

[looka]

Hi, I would like add my two cents about supporting Notation directly in Live for that matter

Could somebody please elaborate statements being like about "bloating" Live's codebase? Do you have any supporting technical background for that bold statement?

As a software developer myself, I trust the static footprint of a basic/mid-level notation support would lie in a magnitude of few tens of megabytes of object code on disk, while the dynamic overhead would catch in ONLY when using it - being disposed and freed for other tasks when closed. Don't you agree?

This should utmost true with modern SOM architectures (Apple Silicon - AMD - and standard ones like INTEL+external GPU). GPUs can surely be used to take care of a useful Notation Editor leaving precious CPU cycles to handle all those magnificent plug-ins, couldn't they?

Some made proposal about "better communication/integration" between Live and third-party notation software but this sound a bit contradictory to me as it is already possible to export MIDI tracks and apply every notation-like bells and whistles with any third party notation software, but what does "integrate" mean from Live's side other than allowing some Notation directly in Live?

If writing a notation software is "a vastly complex time and resource-consuming task to implement" imagine what could be (have been so far) developing Live it self!

I trust Ableton does already outsource section of Live's code to other software companies/freelance developers to help out as everybody in the modern industry does elsewhere.

The wheel as not to be reinvented anytime: there are many, plenty third-party notation libraries that can be integrated by Ableton into Live pretty much pain-less or with little effort compared to the overall complexity.

IMHO supporting a decent Notation editor would only certify Live's engagement with professional musicians - not to mention Ableton recently added scale/microtonality support.

To those who are still against adding Notation to Live: Does your case still hold water?

Cheers!

[PJBass]

Hello !

I'm digging up the subject !

I'm currently looking for a score editor that can work in sync with Live. Let me explain...

Live has been my favourite DAW for many years, and recently I fitted it with an Apollo. On the other hand, as an amateur but passionate bassist and drummer, I write a lot on Guitar Pro 8.
I've configured my Mac so that GP8 uses the sounds, instrus, FX and various plug-ins I have in the Live library. It all works fine. But GP and Live don't synchronise playback, stop and tempo, and that's a real problem for me. But it seems to me that there's not much missing!

I tried to get in touch with the GP developers to ask them about this, but there was no answer.

Cubase has developed its editor with Dorico, Logic Pro offers its own... Why wouldn't Ableton Live offer Link to GP rather than developing its own?

...it would be such a step forward for Live, GP and all musicians who use scores... and not necessarily just the pros!

Happy holidays to you all!

[abiah]

Ableton pride themselves on the app being inclusive, or striving to be, but lack of score undermines this.

A kid who's had a few piano lessons is familiar with musical notation. Early music learners should be able to pick up making music with Ableton. The misconception is that score is for classical music, or for pros. It's not, it's the basic of writing down a music idea.

Piano roll isn't more fundamental, approachable or readable than score. Some people will say it is, but that's a beginner techno-dad producer perspective. Like I appreciate that's ableton's core market but please don't limit us all to that.

A native very basic minimal score view, and ability to connect to professional grade notation software. That would be great.