Latency topic with External sequencer, external synths and running plug-ins

[kakakaka]

Hello,

I've got two problems I would like to submit and take advices from people
Here is my first question :
-How can I manage latency to stay all time sync during my creative process whereas I'm using an external sequencer (Oxi One) to which Ableton is sending a midi clock?
Multiple midi sequences are going back from this sequencer to Ableton where I'm running synth plug-ins OR external instrument that are sending midi to hardware synth such as Prophet 6.
During my creative process I'm also adding different kind of audio samples on different new tracks like for drums where I'm adding plug-ins. I'm checking and compensate midi clock delay every hour as I'm adding plug-in in the session to go back to the initial groove which is a pain in the ass.
Here is my process
-I've got delay compensation ON obviously
-I'm running the session at 256 as buffer size to be able to keep playing midi keyboards
-I start by syncing the midi clock delay with a 1 note sequence from the sequencer playing every click on the metronome with sounds coming from a midi track with a synth plug-in in Ableton
-Then I reproduce the same process with an external instrument and make sure everything is sync.
-The problem occurs if I'm adding plug-ins with latency in the session.
As a test I've tried with a plug-in like RX which is adding 46ms latency in this scenario.
If I've got everything sync and I'm only adding one instance of this plug-in I've to resync the midi clock delay and incresase its value to match the session (meaning the click) in order to have my sequencer on time with the session.
Is there a way to avoid that? Is there a way to keep the midi clock align with what I'm doing inside the session?

Second problem with latency is the following
-If I've got a midi sequence in Ableton like chords on which I add a synth plug-in and a time based plug-in like gatekeeper everything works well.
But the minute I add a plug-in that as latency (like Rx) prior to the gatekeeper plug-in everything become out of sync. For some reason in Ableton plug-in are not reporting to each other from what I understand. This is also a real problem because Rx is an obvious case but it means the same scenario occurs every where in every body session meaning we might be killing the groove any time we are adding a plug-in with a small amount of latency.
Is there any work around that too beside checking carefully how we are adding plug-ins?

Best

[kakakaka]

Anybody with advices?

Best

[Razzkazz]

I had latency issues with an Arturia Keystep Pro. I wanted to use Live as a virtual tape machine, just recording performances from external hardware but the sync was always off. Delay compensation is the cause, no way around it, if you want good sync, turn it off. That might mess up your workflow but that's my input. I also use a M4L device that gives better sync than other methods, not perfect, and not sure it's supported anymore, https://nukemodular.gumroad.com/l/qjpEU

[johnsimmons]

TLDR Sorry, this is just a technical ramble on timing.

I don't have any pleasant solution for this but it was helpful for me figuring out why i was was having so much occasional timing trouble with MIDI clock synced external devices. And also why i gradually moved to using less FX when composing, which i'm not exactly stoked about.

I used Ableton's Spectral Time effect to run a test of this on my system and it has a latency of 29ms which is definitely enough to throw things way off. If i have that effect loaded anywhere in the session, even if on an unrelated, quiet track, AND even if its switched off (I have to remember this), it still will always throw off the timing with my drum machine (and everthing else external) if it is being monitored in Ableton (through an External Instrument). Turning on Reduce Latency while Monitoring didn't solve this.

But if i make an audio track of the drum machine playing a loop and then play that on an audio track and add in the Spectral Time effect, it doesn't throw off the track's timing with the metronome. So i guess if i want to include latency-causing plugins like this as a creative tool in composing, i need to learn to record to audio track EVERY SINGLE THING that involves synced external audio devices first before i even load those guys if i don't want to chase around these MIDI timing errors all throughout the day.

I think I have this all correct. Kind of a mess! I think the hard distinction is down to everything we're doing w ext devices requires monitoring in, which Ableton can't (or doesn't) compensate for automatically. If the track is a VST instrument or recorded audio, i guess it can. I'm sure i'll still be pulling my hair out occasionally with timing problems but this is one step closer to understanding its many tentacles. If I want to use one of these plugins, i just have to manually compensate for it each time in the MIDI Clock Sync preferences.

EDIT: I gotta look into the NukeModular Clock thing again. In my case i found that turning off Delay Compensation and adding Spectral Time still threw the timing off just as badly, but if i switched it off the timing would go back to being correct.