Is Abletons Lydian Scale preset wrong?

[Lumix]

I am playing around with Scale modes.

So i MIDI bounced C-maj lydian (with the scale device) and the E in the mode was bounced twice, while it should be a F.

Can somebody verify this? Or i am just tripping?

[[jur]]

and the E in the mode was bounced twice,

I suppose it's because you played either a Eb or a E# after/before a E (more likely an E#). If neither the Eb nor the E# are in the scale/mode, then it's been rounded to E.
I'm not a "Modes Head" (even though I'm the mod here ) so I'm just guessing "logically" without even checking in Live.
But then, if F is part of the scale, you could legitimately expect that a E# would be quantized to F, why not, right? Yes, I guess... but no also. We need to check this, but i think i remember observing that in this case Live will quantize downward (to E in this case); if that's correct, then it's just a matter of knowing and taking this into account in your playing.

[chapelier fou]

I thought Live would quantize to the closest, and if a choice had to be made between upwards and downwards, it would always be downwards. Am I wrong ?

[resident_m]

(..) the E in the mode was bounced twice, while it should be a F.

Sorry, but something seems to be wrong here: in C Lydian, an E should not be bounced at all, because it's in the scale, and nothing should be bounced to F, as it's not in the scale.

[Lumix]

and the E in the mode was bounced twice,

I suppose it's because you played either a Eb or a E# after/before a E (more likely an E#). If neither the Eb nor the E# are in the scale/mode, then it's been rounded to E.
I'm not a "Modes Head" (even though I'm the mod here ) so I'm just guessing "logically" without even checking in Live.
But then, if F is part of the scale, you could legitimately expect that a E# would be quantized to F, why not, right? Yes, I guess... but no also. We need to check this, but i think i remember observing that in this case Live will quantize downward (to E in this case); if that's correct, then it's just a matter of knowing and taking this into account in your playing.

The Input was actual C-maj scale. so C D E F G A B C basically, hmm -- maybe its that what you mean?
(i made modes for singing)

I recently understood what modes are (its actually simply, but i couldnt grasp it before).
Its like adding color now without actually doing much, other than change perspective.

[yur2die4]

I think it depends on the translation your Scale device is set for.

The scale device GUI is set such that it illustrates the incoming notes, and as that line matches up to its counterpart, you decide if it is going to be a neighboring note instead.

In the case of C Lydian, we want to go through the alphabet for starters. And then if one of those notes is Not in the Lydian mode, we sharpen or flatten it until it is correct.

So we start with C D E F G A B C

The F is not in Lydian mode, but the “F sharp / G flat” is.
Like C D E Fsharp G A B C
Since G is supposed to be in the mode, we leave it alone. The F is not supposed to be there, so we find the F and give it a sharp.

Now when we go back to playing the scale back, whenever F is pressed with Scale Device active, it should always change F to F sharp, and leave E alone. As for the other black keys. I guess you could sharpen all those, or sharpen or flatten to taste depending on what feels like the most natural transformation.

Lastly, it helps that the root is set to C on the scale device when setting that up. Then if you need A Lydian, just change the Root to A and it should convert logically.

These descriptions are based on classic version of Scale. I’m not sure if the general concept of it has changed much, so forgive me if this is different now heheh

[yur2die4]

Well. I just checked it. And the preset is basically wrong. It flattens the F, which still filters the notes to only play Lydian notes, but does not translate well if you play the original major scale note for note.

It is nice that when you hover your pointer over the matrix it shows you the input and output.

I sharped all the notes instead of them being flat. So it’s 1 block on C, two blocks on D, 2 on E, 2 on Fsharp, 1 on G, 2 on A, 2 on B.

This makes it so that if you play thirds, they translate a lot more nicely. If I play a C minor triad going in on my changed version, it switches it to a C major. On the default version of Lydian, it transforms a C minor triad into a Csus2….

[[jur]]

Well. I just checked it. And the preset is basically wrong. It flattens the F, which still filters the notes to only play Lydian notes, but does not translate well if you play the original major scale note for note.

It is nice that when you hover your pointer over the matrix it shows you the input and output.

I sharped all the notes instead of them being flat. So it’s 1 block on C, two blocks on D, 2 on E, 2 on Fsharp, 1 on G, 2 on A, 2 on B.

This makes it so that if you play thirds, they translate a lot more nicely. If I play a C minor triad going in on my changed version, it switches it to a C major. On the default version of Lydian, it transforms a C minor triad into a Csus2….

If you have a minute to share this finding to Support, that'd be welcome

[yur2die4]

Well, the unfortunate thing is that it’s not necessarily a ‘bug’, and it’s not 100% wrong. It’s just wrong for standard practice…. as far as I can tell from my limited knowledge.

I was about to express concern that it could break people’s sets but then I realized that it’s more of a ‘preset’ than an underlying functionality. So it maybe would not break their past sets, it’d nearly apply to future sets.

Still. They might have a good reason for how they’ve decided to apply it.

[[jur]]

As of today's L12.3b11 this is now fixed.