How to integrate a mix into an exiting live set with correct sound levels.

[DavidzH]

Hey there! I am currently working on a live set and am still searching for the best workflow to integrate mixes into an existing live set. Especially transferring the correct sound levels of the mix concerns me. So here is my current workflow:

As soon as I have my mix ready will all faders set correctly, I freeze and flatten all tracks. Afterwards I open my live set and insert the new mix (song) via the browser. I copy all stems of the new mix into the exiting grid of the live set which contains subgroups for each instrument (e.g. Group Synth contains Synth 1, Synth 2, Synth 3.) Within this subgroups I check whether all fader placements are accordingly to the original mix.) On all the main groups of the set (e.g. Synths, Drums, Bass, etc.) the fader will be set to 0db, so that I can use the fader during the live performance, knowing that each song has its correct mix, as long as all faders of the main groups are set to 0db. In the subgroups the faders are automated accordingly to the original mix.

My big questions now are:

1. Is this workflow common or are there easier ways to integrate different mixes into an existing set.

2. Can I "bake" the fader position of a mix into the flattened audio, so that when I import the resulting stems into a live sets, I don't have to work with fader automations in the sub groups. Would be helpful, if the mix of the stems is already correct after importing them into the new live set. Or does it really need individual stem export of each track for this?


Thanks in advance!
Cheers, David

[dsu]

I'm guessing that you working in Arrange view and are copying each new song and all its individual stems further down the time line each time to build up the performance set.

It sound very complex but without knowing why you are doing it or what you are trying to achieve it is hard to make any suggestions.

This isn't a criticism, just questions to spark a conversation.

1. Why are you moving the frozen tracks rather than flattening them? Are you planning on modifying them during the performance?

2. Why do you need stems instead of a single stereo mix of your song?

[DavidzH]

Hey dus, thanks for your reply!

So to your questions:

1. I work in session view and do the compositions and mixing of the song there. When everything is ready, I freeze and flatten all tracks as audio. Afterwards I close the set, open the live performance project and import the clips from the other project via the browser. Since the fader position will not be burned into the clips after freeze and flatten, I need to adjust and automate the volume again in the performance project so that everything is at the correct volume and the mix is right. This is the step that I would like to avoid or make more effektive.

I thought that a solution could be using utility gain in the original project, put all faders there at 0db and get the right mix using the utility plugin at the end of each track. Using this method, I could freeze and flatten all tracks and don't need not worry about volume adjustments after importing the flattened clips in the performance projects. Does that make sense?

2. I need stems cause I want to keep the ability to live mix, take single tracks out, fade them in and play around with the different clips during the performance.

Cheers!
David

[dsu]

1. I work in session view and do the compositions and mixing of the song there. When everything is ready, I freeze and flatten all tracks as audio. Afterwards I close the set, open the live performance project and import the clips from the other project via the browser. Since the fader position will not be burned into the clips after freeze and flatten, I need to adjust and automate the volume again in the performance project so that everything is at the correct volume and the mix is right. This is the step that I would like to avoid or make more effektive.

I thought that a solution could be using utility gain in the original project, put all faders there at 0db and get the right mix using the utility plugin at the end of each track. Using this method, I could freeze and flatten all tracks and don't need not worry about volume adjustments after importing the flattened clips in the performance projects. Does that make sense?

That makes total sense to me. I use Utility to automate levels rather than the faders all the time when I'm mixing in Arrange view. I don't see why it would work differently in sessions view.

I am assuming your work flow is to bring the clips into Session view where each Song is a scene or each song is divide across several contagious scenes.

The issue I can see in this case is that there could be a noticeable change in levels between the "loudness" of each song when switching between scenes. Matching loudness between songs on an LP is one of the things the Mastering process works on.

I just did a quick look and Live doesn't support individual audio effects for each individual scene, just a global effects channel. With a little bit of M4L scripting I imagine that you could build a modest mastering chain for each song (compressor EQ8) grouped for each song and then use a M4L to turn on and off the appropriate group when each scene is selected.

OR

You could just go in to the individual clips adjust the level of the clip if there was something that needs adjustment. Fiddly work but simple to do.

Of course balancing between the different songs might not be a problem in you situation so you an ignore what I just wrote.

I suggest taking setting up 2 songs this way in your performance set. If it works add the subsequent songs until you find a problem and make the adjustment on a case by case basis.

Interesting problem. Good luck with it.

And remember - Save Early - Save Often !

dsu