Ableton DJs, please pack your bags and go home

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:27 pm

Um...

turnips!

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:34 pm

aside from the turnips...

I've got a fair bit of experience of playing "real instruments", DJing with turntables and "DJing" with Live and I think they all have their merits.

Think is, anyone "DJing" on Live worth their salt won't just be clicking play buttons on a few warped tracks. I personally put a lot of work into an Ableton set and there is lots of margin for error that requires a certain amount of skill to execute well.

lapskin · Post by **lapskin** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:05 pm

ive used live for djing once or twice in both situations ive had to work harder than working with real decks its not just simple press play everything matches up tempo beat etc let alone the fact that if u want too loop bits u have to set up the loop sections before u do it live theres a heck of a lot of work needed to have the confidince to use live Live ... Plus if u compare it to tracktor dj u have a lot more options open to u on the live feild utilize a midi controller a copy of reason chuck in a few samples from diffrent locations etc its a lot of fun using live for djing its not going to replace my decks just yet but it dose allow some major creative content to be put out onto a dance floor .....

Some one posted ealier about not wanting to see some one lit up behind a laptop theres the ablity to dim everything down so that u can still see what ur doing

no offence intended but i can see some peoples prospective on this matter not that its an issue for me i dont care who use what as long as iam enjoying the music

----------------

Thats my 2 cents

sonorous3 · Post by **sonorous3** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:19 pm

stallos wrote:worst thread ever.....

why does it bother people so much that others DJ with Live ?
Is it because you thought you were the future DJ and now that Live is a popular application they have stolen an opprtunity from you?

I dont get what all this ranting is about

So many people on the board seem to criticise people for doing a DJ set with Live and using tried and tested effects. Get off your high horses, are people not allowed to have fun with the application? Has everyone got to be pioneering the next new and exciting sound ?

Lots of people want to be DJs. Why wouldnt they? getting paid big bucks to fly around the world and rock crowds of up for it clubbers. Lots of people want to be pro footballers too. Of course not everyone has the skill/determination to make the premier league so should we berate all the people who play football but not as skillfully as Zidane for trying ?

Why not concentrate on your own sound??

you completely misunderstood the thread...read it again

Daniel Dytrych · Post by **Daniel Dytrych** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:09 pm

Oh my word. There has been some total crap spoken in this thread. This debate will go on for years. At the end of the day, there are advantages and disadvantages of live and turntables. The turntable will always hold it's place in djing, it created it. Times will move on and more big named dj's are moving on from the turntable. I have two 1210s MK5G's LE. They will always hold a place in mine and many other peoples hearts. Just because Live is gaining popularity, doesn't mean turntables still cannot be used. I'm sure many people are finding new ways to incorporate turntables with live, etc. Turntables are still being manufactured and sold all over the world. They will be here for a very long time yet.

Thanks,
Daniel.
www.dytrych.net
www.dytrychrecordings.co.uk

telekom · Post by **telekom** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:45 pm

Chris J wrote: OK, I've had my meal, I feel much less grumpy now, and feel that only 90% of pure electronic music is crap

Chris J,
I know exaxctly how you feel... I feel at least 9% worse about everything until I've had dinner...

But one thing never feels good and that is the fatuous and often-revisited debate about DJs being crap and Live DJs being crapper. I don't care. I heard Henri Chopin the other night. A very old man who played a reel to reel tape of his breathing and mouth sounds. He waved his arms in quite odd gestures and made faces. It was utterly moving and profound and seriously made me and my friend wonder if ANY music would ever be able to match this directness and depth.

I'm not kidding. It's what your audience hears and feels which counts. Everything else is beyond consideration. If your audience are worried about what "format" you are using then they should be concentrating more on their feelings about your music. But if they are pissed off because you are fooling them with a bogus performance then you are the clown for being bogus.

It's simple. Don't be bogus. Be genuine and aim to communicate your music to people. Then you never need to worry about whether you're DJing with the most up to date gear or whether you are banging a tin tray on your head.

Oh god I got sucked in again...

kramer · Post by **kramer** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:57 pm

Daniel Dytrych wrote: The turntable will always hold it's place in djing, it created it.

Really? What did they call the guys who would change the rolls in player pianos?

That was the biggest form of commercial music for a number of years. I'm obviously kidding. Just as I was kidding before. I don't really think turntables are all played out....just a certain prominent style of turntablism is played out.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:00 pm

2 more cents....I think something we can maybe all agree on is that reguardless of whose music you are "DJing" with Live (you own creations or the work of others), be creative, don't just play whole produced tracks on their own while checking you email. Don't fake like you are doing shit that you aren't, keep fist pumping and hip hop hand gestures in check, remember that incessant head bobbing can cause serious neck injuries. Bottom line is that Live is a whole different beast than turntables, instead of debating which is better, why not simply recognize the value of each, and exploit these intrinsic qualities to their fullest potential. Live allows you to use way more tracks than two turntables (RJD2 gigs with at least four turntables fwiw), and Live opens up routing possibilities, effect usage possibilities, complex crossfading and a host of other techniques that simply aren't availible with traditional two-turntable setup.

So instead of taking a somwhat lazy approach and simply using Live to play the exact same set that you would play with decks, and just using it because it is easy to warp, compact and easy to setup etc., take advantage of Live's full potential and use the features that it offers that aren't availible on decks. How many not-so big time DJ's on these forums have their own wax pressed--probably not many. Live allows you to actually create your own music, and "DJ" it live, so it seems like musically minded DJ's without the capability of pressing wax all the time can now create and perform their own music utilizing Live--that is cool.

If you are making your own tracks from scratch, you can make a much more interesting and open-ended set since you can isolate each musical element on a number of tracks--that way, you can really explore possibilites in live performances by controlling which tracks/clips are playing, what routing and effects you are using...Instead of just playing one or two clips at once like a turntablist might, you can exploit the potential of Live and create much more open-endedness and variety by utilizing a number of tracks/clips at once, and gaining more control over the seperate musical elements. That way, you are truly mixing and remixing songs live on the spot, not just playing a pre-produced song that will sound the same every night. This is not aimed at anyone in particular, or meant to flame, just trying to say that Live and turntables can happily co-exist, that one isn't inherently better than the other, that both are valid. Live clearly has potentials that go beyond traditional turntable setups, and if you exploit these possibilities to create performances otherwise impossible on decks, then I would say you are on the right track, and using Live for the right reasons. Don't just use Live as a lazy man's turntable setup playing one song/clip at a time, cause I recently saw a performance like that, and it is hard to repect someone who just hits "play"--monkeys can do that. May as well just be an ipod DJ at that point.

Ryan

kramer · Post by **kramer** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:05 pm

telekom wrote:
Chris J wrote: I heard Henri Chopin the other night. A very old man who played a reel to reel tape of his breathing and mouth sounds. He waved his arms in quite odd gestures and made faces. It was utterly moving and profound and seriously made me and my friend wonder if ANY music would ever be able to match this directness and depth.

That sounds interesting. I would have liked to see that!
I saw this guy Emil Beaulieu a couple weeks ago who performs with a modified turntable that has multiple tone-arms, delay pedals and some distortion pedals. It was more entertaining and musically innovative than 90% of what I've seen in the past 5 years. I guess he's been doing it a long time but I had never heard of him.

telekom · Post by **telekom** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:17 pm

Hi Kramer,
Here's a link to some stuff about Mr Chopin.

http://www.erratum.org/chopin/index.html

I've heard about the guy you mention, yeah I would like to experience that too. Had that idea about multiple tonearms myself but never managed to realise it ! I'm glad someone did.

Incidentally, sorry if I threadjacked there. Unintentional !

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:18 pm

You guys don't know anything about music!
The only thing Ableton Live is good for is editing images, and it's not even very good at that!!! Aargh, all DJs are wankers, and electronic dance music is all just clicks and whistles! The only real music comes from vocalists and washtub basses!

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:21 am

this is how i look at it.at the end of the night im still going home with the same amount of money,but i am not going home with the same amount of bitches.

kramer · Post by **kramer** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:41 am

telekom wrote:Hi Kramer,
Here's a link to some stuff about Mr Chopin.

http://www.erratum.org/chopin/index.html

I've heard about the guy you mention, yeah I would like to experience that too. Had that idea about multiple tonearms myself but never managed to realise it ! I'm glad someone did.

Incidentally, sorry if I threadjacked there. Unintentional !

Hey...thanks for that!

I wouldn't worry about hijacking this troll thread.

SimonPHC · Post by **SimonPHC** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:31 am

quandry wrote:Machinedrum (geez, where did he come up with that name, and he didn't even frikkin have a machinedrum on stage!) open up for them and playing between their sets. His music was okay--blantantly trying to be Prefuse 73 on each and every cut, and he wasn't. The thing that really pissed me off was standing on the balcony looking down and seeing him totally fake like he was doing some shit on his laptop, but he wasn't touching anything--far as I can tell he just hit play once

Ok man, those where my toes! You stepped on them!

From now on the only thing that matters to me is what reaches my ears. there's no point in dissing this or that. anybody will dissapoint you. Forget about it. You'll never be shure from now on. Just listen instead ...

The music is still the answer "so keep on dancing and pracing, moving while you're grooving. At twelve midnight I'l be waiting for your you. And you now just what to do. Just keep on dancing and trancing .........."

D DAS · Post by **D DAS** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:46 am

play what you love however you need to play it in order to make people shake their ass. thats what it's all about right? well,, that and drugs javascript:emoticon('8O')

but what ever means you use to get eargasm's flowing one thing is for sure, when our great grandchildren are living in flying discs up in space there sure as hell won't be warehouse factories up there pressing vinyl, evrything will be done on microprocessing chips and other trippy alien space sound devices. they will probally just plug a firewire cable into the back of their heads which will run to there brains that will already have LIVE implanted in them at birth,,, then they wiil just think of the music they want to hear and have it play through the best soundsystem that is the size of a peanut. it will be like mental beatboxing.

that is if we haven't blown our selves up yet.

peace

daydreamadventuresquad

Ableton DJs, please pack your bags and go home

Re: Ableton DJs, please pack your bags and go home