I hope these freaks DONT use live...

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:08 pm

udp wrote:I agree with this Islamic belief, but am hard pressed to see where in any Islamic theocracy there is anything except persecution, corruption, and lack of liberty. What of the Musilms who kill other Muslims? Is Allah on either side? If so, which one. ( I'll be the first one to say that God is not on either side of the conflict in North ireland.)

You need to discern between 'Muslims' and 'Islam', obviously. More so today than 500-1400 years ago, actually.

The Qaran seems to in one sentence say to get along with "people of the book" and in another say destroy those who don't believe as Muslims do. At this time in history those who follow the latter seem to be in control.

It's a very complex book, very open to interpretetation, many of which are unfortunately extremely hateful.

Scripture is a holy place; and we need to calm ourselves before entering it. If we march in, hearts blazing with fury, viewing the world with suspiciousness about
the divine intention, then we violate that holy place. In earlier times, only the pure of heart, and those with decades of humbling scholarship behind them, were allowed to cross the threshhold into that space. Now the doors have been kicked open, and a crowd of furious, hungry, desperate men, stands quarrelling around the text.

When I myself studied theology at Al-Azhar, we were told that Wahhabism was heretical - not only because of issues such as its insistence that the Koranic talk of God's likeness to humanity was to be taken literally, but also because it implied a radical rejection of all Muslim scholarship. Grey-bearded sheikhs departed from their usual imperturbability to denounce the tragic consequences for Islam of the claim that every believer should interpret the scriptures according to his own lights.
This sort of radical move... allows young men whose anger has been aroused by American policy in the Middle East to ignore the scholarly consensus about the meaning of the Koran, and read their own frustrations into the text. Another result of this rejection of traditional Islam has been the notion that political power should be in the hands of men of religion.

(Abdal-Hakim Murad, highly educated British Convert to Islam - head of the faculty of divinity at Cambridge)

http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/default.htm

-Paws

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:09 pm

I am uneducated but Imagine by John Lennon has appealed to my senses for a long time. Of course I would probably go get an education if I could afford one.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:19 pm

Any religous figure that is asking you or those around you to kill, maim or do ill will to other human beings, creatures or apparitions should probably be questioned. Otherwise have a nice day, have fun and go make some noise in Live.

udp · Post by **udp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:00 pm

possesions never meant that you don't have a computer!

If a computer, a car, a toaster, are not possesions what are they? Ofcourse that's exactly what he meant. Marxism is a wonderful ideology, but fails as a means to govern. I am a recovering anarchist, so socialism is antithetical to my core beliefs. Mind you, I'm not one of those anarchists who goes out and riots at the G8 summits, as I think protests are a waste of time, but i feel people should be able to self-govern at the community level with minimal interference from a federal government.
i abhor the nazi's because they are socialists and they fail to see the terrific potential of all humans, regardless of race or culture. It is sad that these girls, with their vitriol have a far larger audience for their music than most of us on this forum.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:18 pm

okay for the last time: THE NAZIS WERE NOT SOCIALISTS!
Equality for "those with German blood" is not the same as racial and religious equality. Far from it. Now apologize!

udp · Post by **udp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:23 pm

Ok, I'll apologize. I guess I thought that nazi was short for national socialist party. Am I wrong?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:35 pm

No. So you're right about the party being NAMED the nazi party.. But they were not socialists - they were the exact opposite... Just like any other politician might SAY he's a freedom advocate, but not be at all.. trying to be civil here, but please google the subject a bit!

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:40 pm

National Socialist German Workers Party was indeed a name of a group of individuals that used propaganda to empire them selves through martial law. I do not know if they ever exhibited any other values of socialism other then the name in their party title.

Benshik · Post by **Benshik** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:04 pm

netchaiev wrote:
Benshik wrote:The question is:
Why those who want to express their "whiteness" need to fall into this fucking stupid extremism?

Wouldn't it be because we as a society became so ruthlessly intolerant to anyone feeling good about being white that the only thing they have left to do is become a nazi freak??? The more we diabolise whiteness, the more nazi scum will arise as a reaction of this...

Fortunately, I see a new emerging class of "whites", comfortable with their identity, educated, open to the world and other cultures. It is a refreshing change after the excesses of multiculturalism and anything-goes relativism...

Finally, we are finding a balance between old fashionned nationalist rednecks and too open minded vegetarian anthropology students...

Ben
You're probably backing the Great Putin!?!?!!
Yes, express your "whiteness" whatever the f*ck you mean. That's exactly the question: what defines you in a racial manner???? i define cultures NOT race, you dumb neo-neo nazi

Well, I never said I personaly feel the need to express my so-called "whiteness". I'm just saying that a lot of WHITE people totally freak out as soon as the words "white" and "pride" come together. And you're a good example of this, so relax you dumb white boy

ilia · Post by **ilia** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:13 pm

netchaiev wrote:You're probably backing the Great Putin!?!?!!

Dude, you are obviously just jealous that we here in Russia finally have a leader worthy of praise and universal admiration - firm, yet flexile, democratic, yet supporting the rule of law. Also, according to some, the sexiest man alive.

Benoit -- good to see you in sprightly spirits!

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:44 pm

Benshik wrote:The question is:
Why those who want to express their "whiteness" need to fall into this fucking stupid extremism?

The answer is:
because that shit is extreme. As much as it is racist for a white person to expressly WANT to marry in their race, it is equally racist for jews to want to marry only jews.

Or for blacks to marry blacks.

Or japanese to marry japanese.

If it happens it happens, but to WANT it, to expressly desire it, for the continuation of a bloodline (which is why ALL of these people do it) is FUCKING RACIST.

Lets call this what it is. It is elitist, it is racist and it supremist. you cant try and hide behind political correctness. This shit is racism pure and simple. And to suggest that its "ok" to want this kind of hatred-driven thinking, justifies this to these people.

in my mind ANYONE who thinks that way is a racist.

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:47 pm

netchaiev wrote:
Eraldo Bernocchi wrote:don't blame US...as a EU citizen (better say i'm stucked in this shitty place as i'd love to be somewhere else...) i can tell you have no idea what does
it means living here.
i mean, US could be a weird place but we're living in countries where freedom of speech is just a pale light...journalists can be jailed for what they write.

nazi freaks? well if this is meaning freedom of speech for me it's ok...just don't gìve them too much importance as communication/media rely on this as well freaks like this.

and...hopefully they don't use live but just in case...let's the abes sell them a bugged version...
Soon you gonnna call yourself a Political Refugee if you go to the US!!?!?!!! Oh yeah, freedom of speech!!! Right! Now you can be a Nazi a Commie whatever, just don't criticize Bush publicly!! You know what a demo is in the US?Since 911 there's more cops than demonstrators!You can be arrested if more than 15 people are gathering in the street! Over w/ the Black Block, totally museled are the media. Your country(Italy) is just on the same slope like all EU... The only thing though is that in the US you can hide more and forget about it all if you want. Just mind your own business (until they come get you!! )

Its not that bad over here...

I publicly criticize Bush everyday, and at work. There are semi-regularly hundreds of thousands of people protesting in Washington. The thing is, like you say, the media doesnt give a shit.

Nor does the administration.

So, nothing gets done about it.

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:51 pm

udp wrote:
Chris J wrote:
computo wrote:maybe people would have compassion for christians, if people like you had ANY compassion for OTHER beliefs. Your ilk make it extremly difficult for us in the states to find support for all encompassing free speech. Yet its your right to say such things, that we fight so valiantly to protect.
I know I could have compassion for christians if this religion hadn't been forced into people's brains by massacres and tortures.
Just look at the cruisades, and you'll see that the islamist integrists are largely far behind if you look at the numbers of people killed by christians for their other beliefs.
Oh, I tried not to get sucked into this one. What were the Crusades in respond to. The Christians couldn't have Crusaded to take back Jeruselem had it not been horded by the muslims. Islam has been spread by violence from its inception. That single fact is the only fault I find with Islam. I've no trouble with Buddists, Taoists, ect., but Islam is violent. Not neccesarily in its scriptures, but in its interpretation. Yes, I know that Christian scriptures have been interpreted to incite war, but its principle founder never took up arms. In constrast, the founder of Islam was considered a great warrior. I guess Islam is kind of a "do what I say, not what I do" religion.

Well, maybe people wouldnt be so bitchy, if they didnt find such an attachment to LAND.

Oh, the muslims are invading Jerusalem? Lets pick a different holy land.

The idea that THAT SPOT is GOD's land, or somehow more holy than the rest of the earth, is down right insane. Quite likely, its only a method of inciting perpetual war and violence. And, HEH!! Thats what we got!!!

dirtystudios · Post by **dirtystudios** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:43 am

I like this quote:

"We're proud of being white, we want to keep being white..." said Lynx.

They shouldn't have too much trouble with that.

k

Benshik · Post by **Benshik** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:24 am

computo wrote: It is elitist, it is racist and it supremist. you cant try and hide behind political correctness. This shit is racism pure and simple. And to suggest that its "ok" to want this kind of hatred-driven thinking, justifies this to these people.

in my mind ANYONE who thinks that way is a racist.

for me the problem with racism is that it isn't only a theme you pick to write a phd, this is something so close to your feelings that it gets very easy to have double standards and fail to respect your high ideals.
for example i had jewish, christian and muslim girlfriends, so i guess im quite versatile and open to others... BUT, not that i want to follow up my already mixed bloodline or something, if my sister would marry a radical muslim and would have to live the wahabite way, well, something inside of me would explode. fuck my ideals, id go mad. that's double standards, that's totally irrational, but that's the situations you have to deal with on the terrain. ok, i'd try to work out a solution, but i wouldn't blame myself for having this protective reaction towards my sister.
personaly, i prefer to be more malleable and acknowledge that a slight bit of "racial prejudices" can be acceptable rather than maintain that same anti-racist discourse 99.9% of white americans and western europeans have. it makes people so rigid, so stuck up and it's sooo hypocritical.
i can have small prejudices, yes, but i will always be open to any individual of any culture or religion. these prejudices aren't strong beliefs, they can fall easily, that's the most important...
some antiracists sound so blindly radical in their theory that it makes them just like racists... this hate and intolerance that white antiracists have towards other whites is for me the frustration of their own racism they try to swallow up and hide... and this is indeed a form of racism!!!!
in other words, i am against violent and radical racism, as well as violent and radical anti-racism. Both are hatred-driven and lead to war...

ouf... all that is so serious. Could anyone tell me a good joke about stupid Finns or shit English food??