Help:Reason 2.5 rewired out of sync and sometimes freezes pc

noou · Post by **noou** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:01 am

I got a big problem when working on a project by a mate who did it in Live 4.
The project uses VSTi as well as Reason 2.5 rewired. In Live 5.0.1 Reason is out of sync compared to other tracks! Sometimes it even freeze my pc and the cpu meter goes over 100%.
When turning off the Reason's Subtractor track (they're 3 overall) the "freeze" doesn't happen anymore...
The beats are from Redrum and DR. Rex and when using delay compensation they're even worse! Everything out of sync!
I never had any problem rewiring in Sonar, but this is the first time I use rewire in Live.

Please help!

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:08 am

I have had issues with Reason 2.5 rewired into live5 posted here and never got any answer. So to be honest I have no idea how to fix it. I rely ought to send the abes another email about this one.

Post by **Alex** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:23 am

Hi noou,

firstly you should try if the latest bug fix update Live 5.0.2 makes a difference.
Beside that do you have 2 issues.

1) Out of sync
You open a Live set in Live 5 with Delay Compensation disabled and all Reason tracks are out of sync. But in Live 4 the Reason track were not out of sync?

2) Freeze
Which audio buffer size do you use in Live?
Does this overload happens at a specific beat time or arrangement position? Or does it happen on a song loop back-jump?

regards,
Alex

noou · Post by **noou** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:13 pm

Alex wrote:
1) Out of sync
You open a Live set in Live 5 with Delay Compensation disabled and all Reason tracks are out of sync. But in Live 4 the Reason track were not out of sync?

2) Freeze
Which audio buffer size do you use in Live?
Does this overload happens at a specific beat time or arrangement position? Or does it happen on a song loop back-jump?

Hi, thanks!
I found that a plugin from TC (parametric EQ) was causing freeze and cpu spikes... I disabled it... but Reason sync remains a mess!
I'll try the new version soon.

About your questions:
1)for sure not! everything is perfectly quantized and the Live 4 project was perfectly in sync

2)1024 samples for mixing... otherwise 64 or 128 but I think this aspect is resolved

I would add that with delay compensation on Reason is even more out of sync.
I found similar behaviours when working on other Live sets when controlling a VSTi from another midi track... about 50ms or more

thanks for your help!

noou · Post by **noou** » Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:20 pm

I tried version 5.0.2 and everything is the same.
When recording audio from rewire without delay compensation and listening to the result everything is allright; conversely the recording is out of sync if I record with delay compensation on. Everything was tried and was the same in 5.0.1.
So I recorded Reason in Live (without delay comensation) and now I'm working without rewire... but it's not very comfortable!

noou · Post by **noou** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:30 am

UP!

Alex are you there?

Please let me know if you read my answer.

Thanks,
Stefano

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 1:46 pm

yes, I am waching this as well. I would like to resolve my rewire problems with reason ASAP.

This is my setup and situation.

I use Ableton live5.02 Reason 2.5 on a PC with windows XP.
In a typical situation I setup a midi track to play reason via clips. The audio comes in about 115ms late. I try to compensate with the audio track but it does not work so i use the delay on the midi track. From there things work as one would expect. The big problem is overdubing anything in real time. Any advice? Should i delete my rewire file and reinstall it?

Matthias · Post by **Matthias** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:21 pm

hi All,

unfortunately the PDC can not compensate the latency introduced by ReWire slaves. but you can reduce the latency if you reduce the buffersize Live uses for slaves like described in:

http://www.ableton.com/index.php?main=faq&sub=options

"ReWireMasterBufferSize"
This could be interesting to Project5 users. This option can be use to change the buffer size that is passed to a ReWire slave application. Currently Live use a fixed size of 256 samples. Some ReWire slaves have performance problems with such a small buffer, so you can use this option to increase the buffer. Note: Be careful, a higher buffer size will also increment the latency of the ReWire slave.
Default= 256
Min= 64
Max= 4096
Example: -ReWireMasterBufferSize=1024

you should get better latancy when setting the buffersize to something like 64 samples, but that will increase the cpu usage. another tip is playing around with the trackdelays, for example you can predelay a miditrack that routes to a ReWire slave.

I hope this helps a little bit,
all the best,
matthias

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:03 pm

Dam that is not what I wanted to hear. I am so sick of dealing with latency that I think I am going to sell my copy of reason. Is there any plans of fixing this or is it a issue for the props to deal with?

just for the record I tried changing the buffer settings and from what I can tell it made no difference.

noou · Post by **noou** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:10 am

I never had problems in other hosts (like Sonar 4) when using rewire slaves. Even at 1024 samples of host latency everything was in sync! Why that's not true with Live?

noou · Post by **noou** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:54 pm

I'll try the Rewire buffer tip... but with this 'not so efficient' cpu utilization I fear that lowering the buffer would make Live unusable.
I have a pretty powerful and audio optimized system (P-M 1,8GHz, 1024Mb RAM, HD 7200rpm, dedicated completely to audio) and above all never had such problems with other software. I never had problems in Sonar (by default) when using Reason as a Rewire slave: perfect timing with no adjustment.

I wonder if anybody having this very same problem find it as much worrying as I do... when using a drum part from Redrum this is a BIG trouble!

Please Live 5 users give it a try and write down your experiences

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:01 am

for me it is the no PDC for rewire that makes reason a pain in the ass. I use the powercore and the uad plugs on all my tracks with out fail and PDC is one of the main reasons that I love live 5. It seams that there is no sollution at the moment anyway.

noou · Post by **noou** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:20 pm

the worst and most important thing is that the same set having sync problems was perfectly in sync under Live 4!!!! Is it admittable? This is a BUG, not only a missing feature!

atomic · Post by **atomic** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:15 am

rely? even with the pdc dissabled?

noou · Post by **noou** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 11:06 pm

yes for sure! the same set a friend was working on under Live 4 imported in Live 5 is out of sync.
I didn't create a new set using Reason yet so I can't tell you if it's a singularity of this particular set. Do anybody has this same behaviour? In my case it's really evident because I'm using Redrum for a drum part. It's heavily out of sync.

Help:Reason 2.5 rewired out of sync and sometimes freezes pc

Help:Reason 2.5 rewired out of sync and sometimes freezes pc

Alex?