Please! A REAL time stretch/pitch shift algorithm !!!

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JeffX
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Please! A REAL time stretch/pitch shift algorithm !!!

Post by JeffX » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:23 pm

I think it would be great that Live integrate a real algorithm for time streching and pitch shifting like Celemony Melodyne have or also Antares products (autotune etc..), Ueberschall products (Liquid Instruments Series..)
We could have a better control on audio clips (and much more possibilities!)

A REAL "ELASTIC AUDIO" CONCEPT !!!!! :D

I have read, in specialized press, a test of Live 5 who estimated the performances and algorithm proposed by Ableton are late compared to the latest versions of others competitor softwares :?
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Obineg
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Post by Obineg » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:41 pm

whats wrong with the "complex" warp mode ?

JeffX
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Post by JeffX » Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:38 pm

Obineg wrote:whats wrong with the "complex" warp mode ?
the "complex" warp mode was created essentially for optimize the time warping (and auto-warp detection) of complex audio sources like mp3 songs..

I talk about complex transposition and time stretching of audio clips!

For example, i think a time stretch/pitch shift algorithm who take into consideration formants of the sound would be more effective

Live can draw a pitch shift envelope in each audio clip so you can obtain a definitivly new loop..
Great! but it sound a little bit "cheap"...with some artefacts
That's very interesting for some music styles (i personnally use this function) but it could be better to have the possibility to create new melodies with one simple loop without artefact! :o

Like with Celemony Melodyne!!! or for example to adjust a vocal line just like with Antares Autotune

For to test the quality of present algorithm, try to transpose (or stretch) a voice (even in complex mode)
you will cannot exceed a transposition of 3 or 4 semi-tones without lost quality of original sample, and especially characteristics of the voice!

It's normal..because we can't control the "formants" parameter who is essential for complex signals like voices.
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Post by 7stars » Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:47 pm

excuse me...are you saying that if i set the option autowarp long files on preferences and i'm using mp3s... if i choose the complex warp mode for all the mp3s... they usually are automatically warped perfectly????

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Post by 7stars » Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:48 pm

that is...before i set the first yellow marker and the exact last yellow at last beat... ???

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:57 pm

JeffX wrote: the "complex" warp mode was created essentially for optimize the time warping (and auto-warp detection) of complex audio sources like mp3 songs..
huh ?
and where did you get that info ?

Regarding formants , just use your autotune as a plugin...
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Angstrom
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Post by Angstrom » Sat Nov 12, 2005 2:42 pm

JeffX wrote:
Obineg wrote:whats wrong with the "complex" warp mode ?
the "complex" warp mode was created essentially for optimize the time warping (and auto-warp detection) of complex audio sources like mp3 songs..
pfft!
*cough*

Complex mode is an FFT frequency windowing 'timestretch' with no relation to easy auto-warping.
Beats and tones are 'time windowing' timestretches

what beats and tones do is divide the audio into little millisecond chunks and crossfade them to produce a 'grain' stretched audio.

complex uses fast fourier transforms to stretch the high and low frequencies differently (I'm trying to simplify massively here!) that's why its a frequency windowing timestretch.

Complex was included because time-windowing (beats and tones) sounds bad on full frequency music, but OK on drums and some instruments. complex works well on wide frequency ranges but introduces transient blurring - percussive sounds can tend to blend into each other, loosing their attacks.

AFAIK melodyne uses an FFT stretch (I forget which algo). Melodyne works on monophonic vocal tracks, melodyne will most likely blur percussive transients too.


you could ask for more/different stretching algorithms, or an offline stretch - now that would make sense

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