bcf2000 fighting faders problem

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:07 pm

I never noticed it before, because I was busy writing songs and not doing much production work i.e. recording mix automation but...

I use the BCF2000 in Cubase emulation mode which works great. But when Live is MOVING a fader grabbing the fader won't release the motor like it should. There was talk of this problem (called "fighting faders") before and it was supposed to be fixed.

Anybody know the solution?

Also when you boot up the BCF and keep pressing the button "EG" appears on the display. Rotaries 7 & 8 then allow a number to be set (some MIDI delay thing?) Does anybody know what this is for?

Thanks!

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:32 pm

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:43 pm

Do you have the latest firmware?
I just got a bcr and it was like 6 versions behind out of the box.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:25 pm

Yep firmware 1.10 I wrote the thread about how to use it with Cubase mode and made the overlay. I figure I usually don't have a problem because manually recorded automation is all messy with lots of nodes, so the fader starts and stops, starts and stops... when it stops and you touch it it the motor will stop.

But today i had a 45 degrees angle drawn automation ramp, so the fader moves constantly, and in that case when i grab the fader the motor doesn't let go.

???

Found out what the parameter under rotary numer 7 is for it's "dead time" 0-1000ms and it is supposed to help with fighting faders.

Anyone? Thanx!

Lo-Fi Massahkah · Post by **Lo-Fi Massahkah** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:10 am

Curious...

youri · Post by **youri** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:37 am

As I know, the faders of the bcf aren't touch sensitive, are they??
This is one of the little differences between the bcfs and a mackie control...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:40 am

..one of the reasons that the projectmix looks good...

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:17 pm

youri wrote:As I know, the faders of the bcf aren't touch sensitive, are they??
This is one of the little differences between the bcfs and a mackie control...

Correct.

BCF's faders aren't touch sensitive even when it is in Mackie Control emulation mode. Unfortunately the Yamaha 01X doesn't have touch sensitive faders either. The 01X makes a nice poor man's mackie control since fortuantely it at least has motorised faders and text displays (many devices capabale of Mackie Control emulation don't even have the text displays - one of the best aspects of this control protocol).

I use both 01X (in Mackie Control Cubase mode) and BCF2000 (non-emulation mode) and BCR2000 (non emulation mode). The 01X takes care of all the aspects of MC implementation ... I use the BCF and BCR 2000's for getting to all the stuff only accessible via manual MIDI mapping (e.g. Global Quantise, Tempo, Swing Amount) and for set "specials" (e.g. specific plugin parameter mapping).

I've LOVE to have a real Mackie control (and a couple of extenders also) ... someday ... soon hopefully.

Cheers

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:48 pm

Just thought of a workaround: If you need to update a fader which is moving, press "Flip" and turn the rotary instead. That works taking over from the automation. You can then press flip again and make the new move with the fader.

Don't we all love workarounds eh? Emailed both Ableton & Behringer. If anyone with a BCF knows the solution (or doesn't experience this problem) please let me know !

Thanks

grfld · Post by **grfld** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:35 am

This problem is adressed to all users of bcf/bcr user with automation.

On Samplitude i used the lean-function to map the track-select-buttons to "fader-touch" events (and the solo-buttons to "track select"), cubase has special "read/write" buttons and proper handling of non-touchfader surfaces.

My workaround is the record mode. Just unarm all tracks (to prevent accidently recording of audiomaterial) and select the track you want to automate. Now hit "record" on your BCF (btw. thank you for the nice template, looks great on my BCF): Live now records only the automation data from the behringer.

Most times i use "groups":
e.g. i have three tracks with drums (kick, snare, highhat) and a fourth track "drumgroup". Alle 3 tracks are routed to "drumgroup". On this track i do all automation, so i still can change the global volume and panning of each track.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:07 pm

Yes.... the magic word is "touchfader" just got an email from Behringer support, the BCF doesn't have touchfaders

So there's the catch it is very cheap after all...

Does your workaround mean that you can change a track that already has some automation written to it? what I want to be able to do is correct automation.

grfld · Post by **grfld** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:10 pm

No, if you hit record, ableton will - like all other programms - overwrite existing automation with the current values.

At the moment i place a marker right before the part i want to change the automation and stop immediatly after completed the mix. Currently i'm trying to programm my X-Session to send the proper "fader-touch" to Live. This should work fine for the most situations.

Ciao, grfld

(who was born very very very very close to the netherlands border

)

grfld · Post by **grfld** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:21 pm

Ok, i give up for the moment.

I used a combination of MidiYoke and Midi-OX to remap the proper commands/notes and send "fader touch" by using the first row of keys (was "sel") and automation seems to be recordet, but the faders won't stop, they still moving. I'll dig in this topic later again.

djsynchro · Post by **djsynchro** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:49 am

Yeah, like I said, you can press "Flip" and use the rotaries to make corrections to mix automation. That will work correctly. It's not so bad.

grfld · Post by **grfld** » Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:55 am

Yes, you're right. For the moment, using "flip" seems the best solution to me. Thanks for this tipp!

bcf2000 fighting faders problem

bcf2000 fighting faders problem

Workaround