BCR and/or Mackie Control help needed!

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:43 pm

Hi all... I'm compiling a list of the messages that the Mackie control outputs to navigate Live and such. I need your help!

1) If you have installed any "mackie emulation" patches on your behringer bcr or similar, I would love it if you could quickly write down the messages that get transmitted along with the function it controls. Afaik it is no more than 60 midi messages or so. I have so far been unable to read Namiheis patches properly (long story)

2) If you have a Mackie control, could you please hook it up to a midi monitor of some kind and make a list of the midi messages? This could get slightly tedious, so we could probably work out some sort of payment.

I'd be eternally grateful for any help in either area, and I have a feeling that the work would really benefit the community. Basically it would allow us to get up-close-and personal with Live contextual controls, but without the expensive hardware...

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:50 pm

Machinate wrote:Hi all... I'm compiling a list of the messages that the Mackie control outputs to navigate Live and such. I need your help!

1) If you have installed any "mackie emulation" patches on your behringer bcr or similar, I would love it if you could quickly write down the messages that get transmitted along with the function it controls. Afaik it is no more than 60 midi messages or so. I have so far been unable to read Namiheis patches properly (long story)

2) If you have a Mackie control, could you please hook it up to a midi monitor of some kind and make a list of the midi messages? This could get slightly tedious, so we could probably work out some sort of payment.

I'd be eternally grateful for any help in either area, and I have a feeling that the work would really benefit the community. Basically it would allow us to get up-close-and personal with Live contextual controls, but without the expensive hardware...

I could try with my Yamaha 01X's Mackie Control (Cubase/Nuendo mode) emulation however it differs in many ways to a "true" Mackie Control.

What do you reckon ?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:57 pm

wicked man.
The main point is to map out *which commands* trigger *which functions*, while in MackieControl mode.

I'd love to compile a joint forum venture into something really useful for every Live user.

shapshankly · Post by **shapshankly** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:18 am

on a slightly different note....

does the mackie control (or the m-audio project mix etc.) work via midi? does this mean that things like the faders and pots are slaved to only 127 discrete values?

i'm thinking of getting something like one of the above (probably the m-audio because of the 8 ins) but i'm slightly concerned by the fact that midi doesn't offer enough resolution to be able to control things accurately enough.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:22 am

shapshankly wrote:on a slightly different note....

does the mackie control (or the m-audio project mix etc.) work via midi? does this mean that things like the faders and pots are slaved to only 127 discrete values?

i'm thinking of getting something like one of the above (probably the m-audio because of the 8 ins) but i'm slightly concerned by the fact that midi doesn't offer enough resolution to be able to control things accurately enough.

I think the mackie is actually full 7-bit resolution. And if I recall correctly the V-pots actually transmit pitchbend messages, so that would be high-res as well...

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:23 am

have you tried shortcircuiting the process by emailing namihei? i'm pretty sure this stuff is available on the web too (not that i've looked, but after reading up as much as i could when i started using namiheis setup thats the impression i got...)

i think i could pm/email you a text version of the sysex files namihei has made if you like. i've haven't been able to get the setup editors for the bcr to work for me so i've had to edit the sysex in hex editors myself so i reckon i could copy and past that out for a start...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:31 am

The thing with Namiheis work is that it has been trial and error. There has been no real mapping effort behind it, and that's the part i'm interested.

I'm close to having the BCR setup sussed, but I definitely need access to the full range of parameters for this to be really cool.

Dr. Zoiberg · Post by **Dr. Zoiberg** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:28 pm

Why don't you ask John Pitcairn?
He's the developer of the Mackie Control emulation.
http://www.opuslocus.com/

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:16 pm

Dr. Zoiberg wrote:Why don't you ask John Pitcairn?
He's the developer of the Mackie Control emulation.
http://www.opuslocus.com/

I have asked, but he's obviously making money by having the information for himself, just like mackie is

So I don't really expect him to cough it up

Me, Myself & I and I · Post by **Me, Myself & I and I** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:06 pm

Having the Mackie BCR emu running here for two days now here's what Ive come up with so far:

You probably have the map from
http://www.geocities.jp/mackicrokontrol ... live5.html
already.

Very cryptic yeah, but still reading it over and over again things start to get clearer a little and -as far as I can see, the mapping is correct.

I have also installed Huskervu
http://www.xmlconsulting.co.nz/husker/huskervu.htm
to see whats happening if I'm turning the knobs.

Important thing to understand is that the emu is working on a "flipped" or dynamic way of mapping.
Meanig first you select a track than use buttons to define what the encoders should do.

Like for example if you want to control a plugin on Track 1
press Button 33 (track1 select), press button E4 (referred to "V-select"), press button 43 (pluginbutton) -> now the encoders in the first or second row (depends on how you set the "flip" button) are assigned to the plug-in parameters. (see "Plug-in Control" on the map).

Hard to get into it, but very clever way of mapping because you can access a lot of parameters with just some knobs.

I've put labels on my BCR with the functions of the button that helped, but still I'm still struggling hard to get into it fully.

Dont give up!!!

jacob grain · Post by **jacob grain** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:30 pm

i have terrible midi-latancy, its almost a 1/8note, do you know what there could be wrong? when i have midi thru ableton. i tested it with max/msp, and there is everything fine, no latency. defenitly a ableton(routing?!) problem..behringer works in usb-2mode, 2 synths are on the A and B, and one of both is the keyboard on the in-port. i get doubled notes, and very slow fadermovements...
i have everything on(track and remote, but no sync), mackie-bcr-bcr, is this correct?! i also gave in the acceleration-values (96 192...), but it also works not:(
ideas???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

thx, jac

jacob grain · Post by **jacob grain** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:15 pm

solution...the feedback was caused by the buffersize of the audio-driver...but that the midi-latency changes with that...strange:)
the other problem is also there, no accelerated-potis...maybe somebody can send to me his working sysex-file?!

thx, jac

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:25 am

maybe try talking to these guys as well, as they're doing a freeware logic/mackie contol emulator for the bcr2000 that uses java. they might be a bit more forthcoming than mr pitcairn...

http://software.bitwaves.de/index.php

also found this post from mr pitcairn that may provide some clues:

http://www.synthesisters.com/hypermail/ ... 19982.html

Namihei · Post by **Namihei** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:15 am

see here

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:27 am

yes Namihei! You're a star!

I'm quickly approaching a wicked setup! I will hopefully be able to post a big spreadsheet later this week

The only thing I've left to do is to try out a whole bunch of midi controllers

BCR and/or Mackie Control help needed!

BCR and/or Mackie Control help needed!

Re: BCR and/or Mackie Control help needed!

Re: BCR and/or Mackie Control help needed!

question about midi-latency/feedback with bcr2000