two general complaints... not about ableton

griper · Post by **griper** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:27 am

1) why is faderfox the only person out with a midi controller mixer? why is there so much press on sasha and hawtin's controller and no one even attempting to emulate them on a mass scale? as someone considering building his own, and realizing that it really isn't hard or expensive, i wonder why gemini numark heath and allen etc arent pumping these things out?

2) i hear a lot of people talking about that "checking email" appearance of using live, ie when using the browser. i think the problem is that the laptop is literally in between the crowd and the dj, so why not just put a monitor flat on its back where the decks would normally be? that way, the dj is still standing, looking down whether checking email or not. this way the actual computer is a little more transparent and people aren't constantly wondering how it's all getting done. the mental picture of that is just a whole lot more pleasant than this:

http://www.futuremusic.com/news/images/sasha-maven.jpg

i dont see the turntables blocking the crowd's view, so why should the laptop?

i guess i rambled a bit... i'd like a little thought on both these topics though because i can guarantee both 1) ableton dj mixers and 2) clubs with screens djs can just plug their laptops into and look down at as a turntable will be very real trends in the next decade

supster · Post by **supster** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:29 am

griper wrote:1) why is faderfox the only person out with a midi controller mixer? why is there so much press on sasha and hawtin's controller and no one even attempting to emulate them on a mass scale? as someone considering building his own, and realizing that it really isn't hard or expensive, i wonder why gemini numark heath and allen etc arent pumping these things out?

2) i hear a lot of people talking about that "checking email" appearance of using live, ie when using the browser. i think the problem is that the laptop is literally in between the crowd and the dj, so why not just put a monitor flat on its back where the decks would normally be? that way, the dj is still standing, looking down whether checking email or not. this way the actual computer is a little more transparent and people aren't constantly wondering how it's all getting done. the mental picture of that is just a whole lot more pleasant than this:

http://www.futuremusic.com/news/images/sasha-maven.jpg

i dont see the turntables blocking the crowd's view, so why should the laptop?

i guess i rambled a bit... i'd like a little thought on both these topics though because i can guarantee both 1) ableton dj mixers and 2) clubs with screens djs can just plug their laptops into and look down at as a turntable will be very real trends in the next decade

totally agree. nothing to add.

.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:09 am

wow

from that picture, either Sasha is REALLY small or the Maven is REALLY big!

Damn I had no idea it was the size of a football field.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:12 am

Running Live on 2 laptops here, both completely controlled by MIDI. The lappies sit off to one side and I don't have to look at the screens at all (or touch them with my sweaty mitts).

I realise everyone works differently, but if you set a goal of "no touching the computer" or "no looking at the screen" as you develop your live gigging setup, it can lead you to lots of interesting places.

I reckon if you have to LOOK at filter cutoff etc as you modulate it, its probably too subtle an effect for live.

just my 2c

bensuthers · Post by **bensuthers** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:14 am

I agree paddy. You are so much better off not looking at the screen. It's SO MUCH about perception.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:36 am

Pitch Black wrote:I realise everyone works differently, but if you set a goal of "no touching the computer" or "no looking at the screen" as you develop your live gigging setup, it can lead you to lots of interesting places.

I completely agree with you, at least when it comes to not touching the computer. I think use of a touchpad (as much as I love 'em) or a mouse inherently forces you to pay attention to the screen.

However, I don't think that a "no screen peeping" rule will help you much. That's like telling a DJ not to look at his record bag or the mixer the entire time. The fact is that live is a complex musical instrument, and by the nature of the way it's designed you at least have to look at it sometimes. That's not to say you should forget about the audience in front of you, though.

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:42 am

I feel like everything on this thread is greatly accurate. Wow.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:59 am

Pitch Black wrote:I realise everyone works differently, but if you set a goal of "no touching the computer" or "no looking at the screen" as you develop your live gigging setup, it can lead you to lots of interesting places.

I reckon if you have to LOOK at filter cutoff etc as you modulate it, its probably too subtle an effect for live.

just my 2c

i think it becomes necessary to look if you need to find files and/or want to improvise with prerecorded samples.

as far as anything that has a sonic effect...

that should be all ears

I'v played sets with a mpc 2000.. that screen is hard to read (but could never give the impression of surfing the net.)

elemental · Post by **elemental** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:51 am

Yeah agree with almost all of this - I would LOVE to be able to play a whole set without looking at the screen, but with loads of scenes and clips to navigate through, it is like searching thru records or something... I need to be able to see what i'm doing, in terms of finding scenes/clips to trigger. For fx, filters, levels etc thats all by ear of course.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:18 am

griper wrote:1) why is faderfox the only person out with a midi controller mixer? why is there so much press on sasha and hawtin's controller and no one even attempting to emulate them on a mass scale? as someone considering building his own, and realizing that it really isn't hard or expensive, i wonder why gemini numark heath and allen etc arent pumping these things out?

eh? First of all, I don't think "mr. Faderfox" is a real person

and it's far from being the only midi controller with a mixer style layout. The amount of press reg. Sasha/Hawtin is mostly guerilla/viral stuff, so it's our own bloody fault, innit?
And the difference between a commercial production and a personal diy thing is that a commercial production has relatively large startup costs, which means that in many cases they need to sell an awful lot of controllers to break even. And since the dj-console guys are probably all very skilled at market-research, they must have judged that the market isn't ripe yet.

Oh yeah, and the Maven looks like an awful POS to me, and irrefutable evidence that sasha is officially not moving his own gear anymore. I can't believe a controller like that is actually bigger than a fucking mpc4k. My guess is that they had the fancy sides done first, then said, "okay, now let's stick something else in there".

A few random diy dj-thingies.
http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=4159.0
http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=5096.0
http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=5202.0
http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php?topic=5310.15 (current fave, scroll down a bit.)

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:58 pm

Machinate wrote:My guess is that they had the fancy sides done first, then said, "okay, now let's stick something else in there".

rofl

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:15 pm

griper wrote: i dont see the turntables blocking the crowd's view, so why should the laptop?

When I'm in the crowd I don't give a shit whether or not I can see the DJ. See http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30330

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:19 pm

elemental wrote:Yeah agree with almost all of this - I would LOVE to be able to play a whole set without looking at the screen, but with loads of scenes and clips to navigate through, it is like searching thru records or something... I need to be able to see what i'm doing, in terms of finding scenes/clips to trigger. For fx, filters, levels etc thats all by ear of course.

maybe you could get one of these then learn braille
http://www.deafblind.com/display.html

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:23 pm

I personally couldn't care less if it looks like I'm checking my e-mail. If they don't like it, they can f*cking leave.

I do, however, incorporate lighting and video to make it a visual experience without using the typical mindless "I'm DJ Tosser... wave your glowsticks in the air and look at me while I perform the nearly-impossible full-body-motion filter sweep!" attitude.

OverIt// · Post by **OverIt//** » Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:28 pm

The best looking midi-controller in my honest opinion had to have been that damn Grex mxf8 that never really saw the light of day...

Sure, there was the future music review, various praises by Claude Young and other well known names, heck, the guy running the slick website (now defunct) would EVEN TAKE YOUR MONEY (not just a deposit) and promise to ship. But the thing never saw the light of day to consumers. And sadly it was the best looking controller yet. It had all I wanted... and if I remember the price was about $500 or so...

two general complaints... not about ableton

two general complaints... not about ableton

Re: two general complaints... not about ableton

Re: two general complaints... not about ableton

Re: two general complaints... not about ableton

Re: two general complaints... not about ableton