Tookie Williams

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:32 am

computo wrote:again, a COMPLETE lack of understanding about the Clemency process.

I change my vote.

Rajah · Post by **Rajah** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:32 am

djsynchro wrote:http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/0511/arnold_in_brazil.mov

Yow, you won't happen to have that movie of Swats in South Africa smoking the Durban Poison?

I thought he was PRO-LIFE?

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:43 am

robtronik wrote:
computo wrote:again, a COMPLETE lack of understanding about the Clemency process.

I DOES NOT MATTER whether or not he committed the murders that he is convicted of.

What matters is the changes one makes once in Prison. The pathetic fact of all of this is, that Arnold has NEVER studied clemency, he has NO understanding of what clemency is for or means, for that matter. Clemency is granted to people who attempt to make a difference since their entrance into the prison system. If ANYONE has EVER done that, its Tookie.

You are witnessing the end of the Clemency process as a whole, when someone who is more worthy of Clemency than arguably ANY other prisoner, is denied and put to death.
so sayeth you.

Right. C'mon. AS if you knew what legal assistance Arnold has..... the Governor of CA who spent this last week reviewing the case w/ his team - who is probably a lot smarter at analysis that you seem to indicate by your dogmatic statements.

Don't be so ridiculous here - Tookie is going to pay for the crime he committed by virtue of the process and laws enacted. You want change? Change the law. Changing the governor has no impact in these situations.

dogmatic eh? Me thinks someone needs to read the definition of Clemency.

"Clemency ... meaning the lessening of the penalty of the crime without forgiving the crime itself. The act of clemency is a reprieve."

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:51 am

Thanks for that. I must admit I didn't realize that clemency didn't take into account the seriousness of the crime itself.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:51 am

But in practical terms it means changing the judgement handed down by a jury and a judge. Arnold is acting like an conservative politician is going to act: let the ruling of law stand and not override it.

I think its perfectly valid that we think (or have the opinion) he should be given clemency (that's our right and I'm glad we can express it). Many people have their justifications and reasons for going either way on this issue.

But the law, the courts, and the judges - and the process that supports this execution have the final say here for Tookie.

I feel bad for the guy the same way I feel bad for the victims of his crimes. I wish we didn't have murder or the need for capital punishment, just like I wish war was unnecessary. But that ain't how the world works.

This is why making music is nice respite from the world.

.02,

rob.

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:57 am

Hambone understands...

The judgement is pointless in reference to clemency.

Arnold is not acting like a conservative, he is acting like the Hitler-loving, public racist that he is.

And war, neccesary? someone's been hardlined into the Military Industrial Complex...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:01 am

robtronik wrote:I feel bad for the guy the same way I feel bad for the victims of his crimes.

what, so you wouldn't stop the murder of the victims if you had a chance?

This really does look like the end of the double-edged sword of the prison-system, where the system at least made an effort to make these prisoners citizens again. Nobel Peace Prize nominee? Sure, but is he a citizen, hmmm. Not so much.

One thing to understand is that clemency *is* a part of the legal system, it's not overriding it at all - it should be the final fail-safe to make sure that the converted don't get killed. And the worst thing is that Arnie might be doing this as a strategic move... *shudder*...

Adonis, you can crash on my couch any day

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:03 am

EVEN THE FUCKING DANES have a better understanding of the Clemency process than some of you guys!!

Now doesnt THAT beat all?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:05 am

computo wrote:EVEN THE FUCKING DANES

You startin'? WTF do you mean?

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:06 am

ok losangeles let the motherfukin riots begin.im sure the crips arent going to let this just slide.this guy was the founding father of the biggest gang in the world.its time for babylon to burn.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:09 am

Machinate wrote:
robtronik wrote:I feel bad for the guy the same way I feel bad for the victims of his crimes.
what, so you wouldn't stop the murder of the victims if you had a chance?

This really does look like the end of the double-edged sword of the prison-system, where the system at least made an effort to make these prisoners citizens again. Nobel Peace Prize nominee? Sure, but is he a citizen, hmmm. Not so much.

One thing to understand is that clemency *is* a part of the legal system, it's not overriding it at all - it should be the final fail-safe to make sure that the converted don't get killed. And the worst thing is that Arnie might be doing this as a strategic move... *shudder*...

Adonis, you can crash on my couch any day

I mean in terms of loss of life. I've already said that I would personally grant clemency, but I don't hold Arnold responsible to my belief system on this issue because he's only letting happen what the justice system has already decided. That's his right and he shouldn't be held accountable for CA death penalty system.

BTW, don't wish the riots on LA. I have to drive home from work still tonight.

(Also: Hilter Loving? C'mon now. (yes I understand his father's apparent connection, but don't go all looney with this type of statement. You insult us all who live here...)

rob.

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:13 am

robtronik wrote:
Machinate wrote:
robtronik wrote:I feel bad for the guy the same way I feel bad for the victims of his crimes.
what, so you wouldn't stop the murder of the victims if you had a chance?

This really does look like the end of the double-edged sword of the prison-system, where the system at least made an effort to make these prisoners citizens again. Nobel Peace Prize nominee? Sure, but is he a citizen, hmmm. Not so much.

One thing to understand is that clemency *is* a part of the legal system, it's not overriding it at all - it should be the final fail-safe to make sure that the converted don't get killed. And the worst thing is that Arnie might be doing this as a strategic move... *shudder*...

Adonis, you can crash on my couch any day
I mean in terms of loss of life. I've already said that I would personally grant clemency, but I don't hold Arnold responsible to my belief system on this issue because he's only letting what the justice system has already decided. That's his right and he shouldn't be held accountable for CA death penalty system.

BTW, don't wish the riots on LA. I have to drive home from work still tonight.

rob.

im not wishing riots on anyone,but....well,you had better just get home man and stay home tonite!!!

computo · Post by **computo** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:15 am

ok, A) just meant its kind of silly for the Danes to have such a good understanding of US policies, and most Americans dont...I love Denmark!! Ive been there, Im not just saying that...

B) Dude, Arnolds Dad whatever. Arnold has been quoted as admiring Hitler, MANY TIMES. Former teammates, and fellow weightlifters have been witnesses to that. I dont think you want to be caught supporting a Hitler fan, Do you?

And he sure should be held responsible for our states death penalty, as he could commute all sentences to life, considering the overwhelming evidence that Death Penatly cases are SO often fixed....

Perhaps some of you remember the Honorable George Ryan???

"Our capital system is haunted by the demon of error: error in determining guilt and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die. What effect was race having? What effect was poverty having?

"Because of all these reasons, today I am commuting the sentences of all death row inmates," Ryan said.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:19 am

I'm moving to Ibizia and living with Carl Cox

Carl Cox also has a place in frankston (a suburb of melbourne australia) would you believe, and up until last weekends race riots in sydney i would have said that place would have been a good spot to go to, but now i'm not so sure...

australia ain't what it used to be.

robtronik · Post by **robtronik** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 1:19 am

right, and this information about his Hilter loving ways has been successfully supressed all during his weightlifting career, movie career, and political career - all of which are high profile, completed vetted professions in the public media?

All of which have a vested interest in breaking a story and this information in the public eye - and in the very democratic based state of CA who has a natural inclination to out any republican under such accusations?

RIGHT.

C'mon now. You do your analysis skills a disservice here.

.02,

rob.