Intel gear is around the corner

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
FaX-01
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Post by FaX-01 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:26 am

sqook wrote:Rumor has it that the new mac intel machines won't have firewire support. Could be a deal-breaker....
I'd rather have a single Firewire 800 port than the 400 ports anyway.
That cleary states that will be a SINGLE FIREWIRE 800 port and they will loose the dual firewire 400 ports.
I cant see what the big deal is myself.
If these new iBooks run just as well as PC based Centrino's with Live you just may see me getting one as my next Personal Computer. :wink:
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

hacktheplanet
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Post by hacktheplanet » Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:47 am

Drop Firewire?
Aahahahah that's retarded. Why the hell would they do that? They'd alienate a good percentage of users with firewire equipment including cameras, hard drives, sound cards, etc etc. Plus, fw800 is faster than usb2 in most cases.
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LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:17 am

I have the money right here, and there is a gig I would love to perform at on Jan 29th.

Show me what you got!

eyeknow
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Post by eyeknow » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:37 am

in general, pc's only have 4 pin fw support built in........I wonder if the change in macintel will also have to go that way........

I have a hard time believing that apple would go that way though..........why regress...............?

netchaiev
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Post by netchaiev » Tue Dec 13, 2005 9:39 am

nebulae wrote:I just realized the shit-storm I'm about to get with that last post. Let me try to mitigate by saying I still love all you Mac users. My wife is a Mac user (bleh!). And I'm sure the cult of Mac will survive long after I'm dead and buried. :)
Hey man, I'm w/ you.. And I work for Apple!!!! Love the stuff. But greedy and cheap motherf*kers...getting sick of the way they treat the foot soldiers. and consummers (no more FW on iPods,...) I think the cult will go down. People are sick of it. and thew Intel move although good in terms of perfs hopefully, will enter a new era.....
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Pitch Black
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Post by Pitch Black » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:04 am

Just so long as hot-swapping bus-powered FW devices doesn't blow up the FW port necessatating (sp?) a total motherboard replacement.

(as on the rev.1 G4 Powerbooks... oooh they burned me baaaad)

Much as I'm amped for one, I'll be waiting for rev.2 at least! :?
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forge
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Post by forge » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:16 am

the_planet wrote:Drop Firewire?
Aahahahah that's retarded. Why the hell would they do that? They'd alienate a good percentage of users with firewire equipment including cameras, hard drives, sound cards, etc etc. Plus, fw800 is faster than usb2 in most cases.
Alienation seems to be something Apple make a habit of....

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:25 am

forge wrote:
the_planet wrote:Drop Firewire?
Aahahahah that's retarded. Why the hell would they do that? They'd alienate a good percentage of users with firewire equipment including cameras, hard drives, sound cards, etc etc. Plus, fw800 is faster than usb2 in most cases.
Alienation seems to be something Apple make a habit of....
An example, please.

(If this is about Logic, would you fucking get OVER it. It was three years ago.)

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:45 am

noisetonepause wrote:
forge wrote:
the_planet wrote:Drop Firewire?
Aahahahah that's retarded. Why the hell would they do that? They'd alienate a good percentage of users with firewire equipment including cameras, hard drives, sound cards, etc etc. Plus, fw800 is faster than usb2 in most cases.
Alienation seems to be something Apple make a habit of....
An example, please.

(If this is about Logic, would you fucking get OVER it. It was three years ago.)
ooh paws is back to his bitchy self!

ruffled your feathers there did I? :P

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:56 am

You startin etc etc

No seriously, what were you referring to? I tried to think of something but Logic was all that came up. Apple do act like wankers sometimes (and it seems their focus has shifted from excellence to hegemony cos of the iPod, something I strongly disagree with) but I couldn't really see what could specifally warrant your comment.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:26 pm

noisetonepause wrote:You startin etc etc

No seriously, what were you referring to? I tried to think of something but Logic was all that came up. Apple do act like wankers sometimes (and it seems their focus has shifted from excellence to hegemony cos of the iPod, something I strongly disagree with) but I couldn't really see what could specifally warrant your comment.
the whole Apple ethos to me seems very elitist...you have to pay more to get performance, they've never allowed OSX to stray to other platforms - they just havent been as open to the wider universe all round really.

And yes, really the whole Logic thing always seemed like amazing stupidity to me. Really never could understand that one. Just the sheer numbers of PC users out there over mac users has the potential to generate so much revenue that they could improve it far more than they reason they have gained from keeping it exclusive to mac.

And really I'm fucking bored and sick of hearing about macs. To me it would be like someone going on about Hewlett Packard or Dell. They're just a company who make computers AND an OS etc etc so why the fuck do we have to hear about them so often? The Mac/PC wars carry on again and a fucking gain, at least once a month round here even, and it's unbelievably boring. We dont still argue about Beta versus VHS video, do we??

So my point is??? Well, not very democratic is it? - writing an OS and not paying the pitiful amount of attention and cash required to make it available for PC - christ, Sonic charge - Microtonic, a team of ONE developer can do a mac and PC version, Apple could release an "IBM compatible" version (see the irony there?? IBM COMPATIBLE! the very company who's chips have been ONLY JUST been ditched by Apple, yet they havent still released an IBM Compatible, or "PC hardware" version of the software so people can still have the benefits of OSX without being conned into paying more for inferior performance power.

Apple are a bunch of greedy marketing driven con merchants. They're not bloody "true believers" they are elitist wankers.

I just think the very fact that we are even discussing this with so much interest is out of order. They are probably 2 or 3 years behind in Laptop power, that is a joke. They should have adressed it a long time ago.

They should be regarded as fools for that, but the sleek sexiness of their design department have sucked people in.

There, you got a rant out of me.



:roll:

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:26 pm

forge wrote: We dont still argue about Beta versus VHS video, do we??
That is where YOU become the person making the assumptions here. Macs are not beta, windows is not VHS!
Yet windows people cannot help but diss, slam an pisstake EVERY time something specifically mac is brought up, like this very thread. If you and others are so very tired of macs being discussed, stay the fuck away from topics about macs! Jeez? I fucking never see people trolling on "new 64 bit AMD chips! any good? type posts here, but people seem to think it's just fine to take a shit on those of us who use macs, and it's not some fucking cult to use a mac, PC isn't a religion either.

There's no law that sez you HAVE to support every fucking motherboard out there, and if you think it's easy for Microsoft, you really have another thing coming. The R&D cost for them is ridiculous. While OSX is stable enough on it's own, the fact that Apple make the hardware too is always going to add to that stability, it's what they do, if you don't like it use a PC.

The reason why it's always a PC vs mac war around here is because people always trash either mac or PC. Though honestly, the real bile seems to come from the PC side.

What amazes me is people bring up Logic when Microsoft killed Netscape Navigator, or any of other competitors in totally anti competitive ways. All this constant talk about what assholes Apple are when Microsoft is by far a worse company in every respect, but people somehow concentrate on things that make no sense, like Apple supporting Logic on PC's when audio geeks like us are all about speed, and IBM can't get a G5 cool enough to fit into a powerbook. Honestly, would it make any business sense if your business is to sell computers to market a cross platform app that runs better on PC laptops than your own?

Now with Live, well powerbooks are simply more stable and less likely to have hardware failures than PC laptops, ( this is Consumer Reports, not some mac babble ), so using a slower powerbook for Live in live situations makes sense to some of us.

My question, again, when Intel powerbooks come out, and are just as fast as PC, or faster...... what are you mac haters going to say then? I mean it's a laptop, it's not upgradeable and you really want a decent build if you are to consider it an instrument like my Gibson Les Paul. It will be able to boot XP, and probably be about the same price as a high end PC laptop. What prevents anybody from seeing this as a great thing?

I mean really why is it I'm sitting her having to explain myself about a simple choice in hardware, when it's obviously a good choice? Robert Henke uses them for christs sake!

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:42 pm

Machinesworking wrote: Though honestly, the real bile seems to come from the PC side.
.....

Now with Live, well powerbooks are simply more stable and less likely to have hardware failures than PC laptops, ( this is Consumer Reports, not some mac babble ), so using a slower powerbook for Live in live situations makes sense to some of us.

My question, again, when Intel powerbooks come out, and are just as fast as PC, or faster...... what are you mac haters going to say then?
dude, you've actually done a really good job of proving my point!

I am not from the "PC side" - My whole argument is based on the fact that I think by now there shouldnt be such a thing, and I started on Macs and still have one. I dont want such a thing as a Mac vs PC argument AT ALL! I just would like OSX tiger without having to waste money on poorly inefficient systems. I have no doubt whatsoever that loads of laptop mnufacturers would do a great job of building a michine that OSX would love.

These "consumer reports" you speak of??? any links?? I personally find it very hard to believe. I've read more problems with macs around the audio forums than PCS, more powerful hardware is bound to make for more stability and my point is Dell, HP, Toshiba, IBM, Sony etc etc are putting just as much effort into the build quality, if not more....so why cant they have OSX on them which is clearly a far better OS??

If you told me I could load up OSX Tiger on my PC and get the same performance now, I would dowload it, log off the net and install it right now. This is my problem.

Even if I could afford to, why would I want to buy the fastest G4 powerbook when it is so far behind in power??

I'm just saying Apple took far too long about this. Apple customers should be feeling let down.

They dont have to stop making their own hardware, I'd probably still buy it when it's powerful enough and I have the cash...

gomi
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Post by gomi » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:51 pm

forge wrote: If you told me I could load up OSX Tiger on my PC and get the same performance now, I would dowload it, log off the net and install it right now. This is my problem.
You can. I've done it.
I tested a build on a P4 2.8Ghz Shuttle (those little cube pc's) with
2x120 SATA HDD and a Radeon 9600.

Was blazingly fast. Not as fast as the dual 2.7 G5 I have used at work obviously.
But way way way faster then XP on the same machine. I mean way faster.
And the build wasn't even properly supporting the video card yet, I can't
even begin to imagine how much MORE zippy it will be once it supports
the opengl etc.

patience.

i can't wait for a dual core 3.0ghz intel powerbook.
drool.

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:52 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
forge wrote:
the_planet wrote:Drop Firewire?
Aahahahah that's retarded. Why the hell would they do that? They'd alienate a good percentage of users with firewire equipment including cameras, hard drives, sound cards, etc etc. Plus, fw800 is faster than usb2 in most cases.
Alienation seems to be something Apple make a habit of....
An example, please.

(If this is about Logic, would you fucking get OVER it. It was three years ago.)
I come from a generation of newer Logic users. I bought it based on the words of earlier generations. I sill have the gripes with tech support, bug fixes, overall stability, etc.

In terms of non Logic related troubles:

My girlfriends ibook: never pushed with an one application, harder than to play DVD's. The hard drive dies because it is faulty- Apple charges here $75 to keep her files, despite having Apple care. THey had a Bad attitude as well.

Chirping G5's. I can't tell you how pissed off I am when it happens, but at least my G5 dosen't crash hard everytime the screen saver comes up any more! I took it to the store and they made it WORSE. I had to run diskwarrior tho fix it. Apple techs have nothing on diskwarrior?- WTF?

While it seems more llike a bad situation than a intentional consumer attack insult-
The way they hyped G5's, haven't released competitively priced/powered laptops in years, and are now switching to macintels rather than realise the "64 bit" capacity of the G5 products all seems flaky, and unreliable.

I for one feel like I will have to learn how to program in Cocoa if I ever wants to push my G5 to it's limits.

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