kenton -wagonchrist-and squarepusher using live?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:39 pm

Kraftwerk, kraftwerk, and kraftwerk. also robert moog, and wendy carlos.

kraftwerk was cutting edge in devolopment of some of their own instruments, and creating bringing electronic music to the dancefloor and the masses. Moog was cutting edge at the development of the hardware to make it all possible, and carlos made it all palatible to some of the non-dancefloor fuddy-duddies. But then again, Jaco built on what was already there, and expanded the pre-concieved notions of a basses role (which were handed down from classical to jazz--the role of a time-keeper and harmonic informer--keeping a steady beat and defining the harmonic movement). Jaco was a drummer, and loved to listen to sax players, so he took those influences and just went to the stars with it--no limits. So i guess with that in mind, i don't know who would be the jp of electronic music--who really took it out there to the next level--aphex twin in the selected ambient works periods of late 80's and early 90's? Prefuse 73's "one work extinguisher" (sheer genius)...I dunno. Who do others think busted electronic music out of any preconcieved notions and took it to the outer limits, opening doors and minds of those to come???

Ryan

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Hm. Kraftwerk? I disagree. If I had to name one, it'd have to be Squarepusher - he makes innovation sound so effortless.

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:43 pm

I'm with Ryan on this one. Maybe now it doesn(t sound innovative at this point of time anymore , but when you put it into perspective of the music"streams" at that moment , they were groundbreaking . When radio-activity came out at the time in 1975 I just was stunned .... and have been hooked to electronic [influenced] music since . I like squarepusher a lot, but don't consider him thàt groundbreaking ...

Together with Kraftwerk, I value high as well Lauri Anderson, Chris&Cosey, Throbbing Gristle ...

And in more recent times the disjointness of Prefuse 73/Kid606/DJ Spooky

And I can't let out one of my all time favourites , pioneers of the A/V realm : ColdCut

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:21 pm

four tet and boards of canada are two other greats. for a great modernised kraftwerk album look no further than the early 90's remix/remake album "the mix" by Kraftwerk. The shit, even at that point in the time line--COMPUTER LOVE! Production does not get much better than that, period.

ryan

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 10:36 pm

I know and love my Kraftwerk, naturally. I was born in '84, my brother in '79. He was very into it (now he's into Shania and Hans Zimmer... oh, the shame!), so I've listened to it since I can remember... this might explain why it doesn't seem as innovative to me as it should. But when I was first introduced to Squarepusher, I was blown away - I didn't think anything could sound like that, at all... and like I said, it sounds so effortless to me, it's got such a natural flow, if you know what I mean... Squarepusher is just the most 'intelligent' electronic music I've ever heard - it makes a lot of sense to me.

I don't know what I'm trying to say.

I really like Squarepusher, OK?

Goodnight!

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:18 am

So I should check out more Kraftwerk.... always ignoring them a bit in favour of more current artists....

format

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 8:18 am

Wow! This all inspires me to get some new music today --- own neither any Fourtet, for any Prefuse----

In sheer versatility and body of work, I would probably consider Aphex one of the shining lights of the 1990s. Though I do respect and like Squarepusher a lot, at times it's just too much if you know what I mean (same goes for Ae, by the way, especially "Draft") -- and Aphex can get quite mellow at times, which I like

---just listen to the all-time-wonderful Alberto Balsam (on "... I care because you do" -- what a wonderful album title too!)

I sometimes wonder how you, my fellow electronic musicians, rate "new" stuff of the glitchy-clicky sort, like Jan Jelinek, Opiate etc.... Do you think this is just a fashion that will fade eventually or do you feel it's made to last? Just got Opiate's "Sometimes", and he's indeed very very good.

There's just so much, and when I think about the question "Who's the Jimi Hendrix of electronic music?", the name Matthew Herbert often springs to mind. Not just in terms of the quality of his music, but also in the sheer virtuosity of his live performance.

I'll attend the Saalfelden Jazz FEst at the end of August, and one of the acts there is Marc Ribot (speaking of geniuses, he's definitely a brilliant guitarist!) with Ikue Mori, a Japanese Powerbook player. Ever heard of her?

Cheers and thanks for all the replies! Keep this topic up, it's way interesting!

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 9:19 am

On the HipHop <crossover>- EM tip I like Ming & FS or BoomBip quite a lot ...

Think it's difficult to speak about 'overall' groundbreaking EM but that most is a bit genre specific

cderum · Post by **cderum** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 3:20 pm

hey guys,

i've been following this thread for a while, thought i would jump in. I have to side with Ryan on this one. I don't think it's hard to overstate Kraftwerk's importance in giving birth to the music we are all making today. Let's not forget that one of the biggest early fans of Kraftwerk's music was none other than Grandmaster Flash. A long time ago I listened to an interview with him and he talked at length about how important Kraftwerk's tecnical innovations--drum machines, samplers--were in laying the ground for early rap music. So I think of Kraftwerk as being crucial not just on a theoretical level, but as a huge force in creating street music. Here's a quote from a kraftwerk fan site: "One of the greatest innovators in hip hop, Grandmaster Flash has also praised the work of Kraftwerk. Flash, as Bambaataa, used to play Trans Europe Express in the park where he was mastering the turntables in a unique way. He was making music by cutting up pieces of other peoples music and made it into party music. Flash once said "this record by kraftwerk is great, i can even go to the bathroom while i play it...it mixes itself!!". Man Parrish, one of the first electro artists in the early eighties said in a interview "What can I say? Kraftwerk was the inspiration for dozens of "Hip Hop" artist back then (now it's called electro or freestyle). I just happened to be one of the first to combine Kraftwerk stylings with sounds and words we experienced on the New York Street Scene. Other than Kraftwerk, there were few other sources of that amazing "new" sound, so we made our own!!"

With respect to artists who have come onto the scene more recently, I think there are a couple of real standouts. If it was 1996 or 1997 and you asked me who was the most innovative electronic musician, i would have said DJ Shadow, easy. But you know, for all of its total awesomeness, "endtroducing" has started to sound a little less awesome now, I don't know why. I would have to say Scott Herren's Prefuse 73 records have definitely taken over the place in my heart that DJ Shadow used to occupy. Why? Technically amazing and catchy as all hell. For creating sheer beauty from so many different strands of music (free jazz, indie rock, post-rock, electronica, etc . . .) Four Tet is second to none.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:26 pm

cderum wrote:Kraftwerk's tecnical innovations--drum machines, samplers--

Now, that is a misconception.

Kraftwerk did not invent the drum machine. I do think, however, that Karl Bartos invented the electronic drum kit by inserting a pair of knitting pins and some metal pads in the circuits of his rhythm machine - when the pin touches the pad, current can flow through the circuit, and you have sound.

And Kraftwerk did CERTAINLY not invent the sampler - I don't even think they used them until Electric Café, if even by then?!

-Paws

cderum · Post by **cderum** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 6:44 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
cderum wrote:Kraftwerk's tecnical innovations--drum machines, samplers--
Now, that is a misconception.

Kraftwerk did not invent the drum machine. I do think, however, that Karl Bartos invented the electronic drum kit by inserting a pair of knitting pins and some metal pads in the circuits of his rhythm machine - when the pin touches the pad, current can flow through the circuit, and you have sound.

And Kraftwerk did CERTAINLY not invent the sampler - I don't even think they used them until Electric Café, if even by then?!

-Paws

sorry, didn't mean to suggest the Kraftwerk built them, only that they were among the first to use them.

For a list of Kraftwerk's gear from the 1970's, check out http://kraftwerk.technopop.com.br/life_setup.php This site shows that in the 70's Kraftwerk was using the Mellotron and the Vako Orchestron, early analog samplers.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:45 am

there's a great book out there about Kraftwerk, and after reading it I have no doubt that they were at the forefront of technology, at times pushing it. They were certainly at the forefront of the implementation of it on stage and in studio, and for creativity in just using all of this crazy, complicated, HUGE and "cutting edge" technology. hard to think or any person or group that was at their level of electronic based production that at the same times they were making albums.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 5:36 am

cderum wrote:Mellotron and the Vako Orchestron, early analog samplers.

Sorry... hadn't thought about it that way! I'm not denying Kraftwerk's influence in any way, I just don't think they are as fanstically visonary and innovative as people like Squarepusher (who I just think is a very musical person, who does very intelligent and musical music), Plaid (who do very warm, naïve and hearty electronic music, without comparison, IMHO) and DJ Shadow (musique concrete for radio victims!)...

-Paws

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 4:28 am

kraftwerk innovated like mad.
rdj and squarepusher also innovated--in the mid- to late-nineties.
now we are in 2003, and the limits are being pushed by venetian snares.

soon there will be someone else... and all i can guess is that he will probably be a young white male.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:28 am

Young white male?

I was thinking japanese girl... but does it matter?