Operator tuning won't go to 0

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:33 am

Hello,

I'm trying the Operator demo (using 5.0.2) and finding that the coarse tuning knobs for the oscillators simply won't go to zero - even though a setting of zero is required for some of the lessons.

They go either to 1 or 0.5.

I've tried typing the values in, instead of using the mouse, but even typing '0' or '0.0', then hitting return or clicking on a different knob, produces a value of 0.5!

Is this in some way by design?

Also I saw mention in a thread from earlier this year that there was a plan to remove Operator altogether from the browser for those who didn't want to purchase it. If I decide I don't want it, will that be possible?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:40 am

hehe, set it to fixed, and turn the multiplier to zero. That should do it.

I laugh, because I've been there myself, by the way.

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:42 am

But for pitched instruments - do you mean I would set it to fixed, turn it to zero, then switch off 'fixed', and it will stay at zero?

Sounds like a bug, surely?

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:49 am

no, I think the whole point of doing a zero speed as a feature is that it then becomes a waveshaper instead of a traditional frequency modulator - Robert Henke may correct me on this. It's used as a signal processor, it doesn't produce the signal itself.
The way I see it the whole point of the zero value is to *freeze* the oscillator. That would not make any sense if you then changed the pitch of it - then it would just be doing very slow LFO-style frequency modulations.

Hope this helps ... a bit

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:52 am

Thank you but I am a bit more confused now! (sorry - have been grappling with FM synthesis...)

I understand that the function on the other oscillators of fixing an oscillator's pitch would be very different to playing it as a pitched instrument, but this still doesn't explain why I can't tune it, in pitched mode, to zero.

Doesn't this mean it's always going to be slightly out of tune?

Or am I missing something?

Thanks for your comments so far!

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:06 pm

No problem man. First of all you should try not to include zero hz in your concept of fm - after all an oscillator that isn't oscillating (since it's at zero hertz) can't produce any sound. See it as a separate bonus if you will, along the lines of advanced waveshaping, which is an entirely different matter that Robert and Matthias could probably entertain you with for hours

The Coarse knob cannot go to zero because it is creating harmonic relationships between the different oscillators in the patch - which makes a lot of sense in fm, since even the slightest detunings can sometimes make an awful lot of noise. And there's nothing harmonic about an oscillator not "doing" anything.

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:13 pm

Thanks, that does make more sense now. I'll spend some time experimenting with it today in the light of what you've said.

I still don't quite grasp why the operator lessons suggest a tuning of zero if this is actually impossible - but again, maybe I'm overlooking something.

Thank you again

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:17 pm

You know I'm having a hard time explaining it as well, mate, so no worries

Hopefully Henke or Mayrock will chime in.

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:50 pm

Ok, after further exploring I think I understand it now! As you say, the coarse knob controls/creates harmonic relationships - it doesn't simply transpose.

I think the misleading thing is that the Operator tutorial makes it sound as if the coarse knob is just a semi-tone version of the fine knob (as you might conventionally expect). And it does instruct you at one stage to set it to zero, which is impossible! So the bug is in the tutorial, not Operator!

In fact the info area of the Operator makes the knob's real function a bit clearer.

Cone · Post by **Cone** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:54 pm

Coarse is not supposed to go to 0, only 0.5. Confirmed in this thread.

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:59 pm

Thanks for posting that link, which clears it up.

So, to sum up, for any Abletonians reading:

you need to update the Operator tutorial to reflect the fact that in v5 the coarse knobs go from 0.5 to 1 without 0 in between!