brainwave frequencies

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:18 pm

the brain has been shown to entrain to audio frequencies in the 8-12 Hz range, inducing various mental states. here'a a list of all different frequencies and what they do. (only the 8-12 Hz ones are useful to induce states through audio tho).

http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm

check out http://www.bwgen.com for a binaural brainwave generator, good for making samples, just be sure to turn the noise generator off. it's important that the frequency is a beat frequency created by tones in opposite ears, so if you're gonna try this with a synth, make sure to pan the oscillators left and right.

to make a one of these you would have to have a fixed difference between the oscillators that represents the beat frequency. eg. 10 Hz beat = 810 + 800 Hz tone, or 410 + 400 Hz tone. this means that you can't pitch these guys around or the beat freq will change.

anyway, have fun!

d

Q&A · Post by **Q&A** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:01 pm

thanks.

Ive been obsessed with this idea for years

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:32 pm

word up.

don't forget that frequency in Hz x 60 = beats per minute! you can now 'tune' your tempo for maximum effect

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:44 am

now i just need a speaker that can produce waves at 8-12 hz........

.lm.

borg · Post by **borg** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:20 am

leisuremuffin wrote:now i just need a speaker that can produce waves at 8-12 hz........

haven't been through the links, but iirc, it is all about the difference in frequencies that the brain will perceive...

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:55 am

totally. the beat frequency is created by the difference between the left and right speakers.

also: a tempo can be a frequency too. 8 Hz is like 16th notes at 120 bpm... 12 Hz is drum and bass or double time hiphop...

machine609 · Post by **machine609** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 9:14 pm

there is no scientific data that shows that listening to tones can cause any permanent effect on the brain. Brainwaves are generally 40 khz. If anyone is interested there are some very good books on the subject of brainwaves and conciusness in general. I would start with Rita Carter's "Exploring Conciussness" and of course Danielle Dennett's "Conciousness Explained"

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:16 am

werd.

the ancient chinese have a few theories about music's effect on consciousness and moral character as well....

definitely worth a read

machine609 · Post by **machine609** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:28 am

There is definately alot to be said about how music affects the brain and mood. The more we move forward the more we throw away the simple ideas of how we work. The affect of sound upon the brain is pretty complex and we are still have little understanding of the overall functions and how they work together. Neurotransmitters and how they work will give you a headache considering that some neurons release thousands of neurotransmitters that would seemingly cancel each other out but they somehow create a combination that works. I am not going to pretend to know how it works. I guess my point is that, the science of using tones to affect such a complex system is probably as good as the old theory that you could sleep and play a tape of someone talking and you would learn from it. We now know it is rubbish and that the brain cuts off most of the neural input during sleep. Damn I am rambling, sorry guys I will take this to a neuroscience forum.

Merry Christmas everyone.

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:37 am

actually it is very different than 'subliminal learning tapes'. it may sound esoteric, but it is not that far out. nobody is saying that you can beam thoughts into people's heads, or force them to feel something, but brainwave entrainment is a real phenomenon. you can even use it to regulate neural activity of dogs to prevent seizures. i study neurology at u toronto, trust me.

Q&A · Post by **Q&A** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:09 am

I don't trust anybody..... I do love this idea and your thread though.

All those in favor of keeping this thread alive say "AYE".....or just make some Schuman Resonance.....good.

anyways....like I said, I don't trust you( but its in that civil, scientific curiousity, kind of way). is there any way you can post a link to the dog experiment results? Maybe I'll check the original link for more info. i just DL'd the program so far.

As odd and ridiculous as some theories seem, I think we all would agree that dismissing them prematurely, would prevent "progress".

As far as the definition of "progress" goes...well that is up for everyone to judge for themselves.

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:04 pm

this is all i could find offhand: http://www.borderlands.com/archives/arch/elf.htm but i remember the treatment being mentioned by prof. yeoman in the neurology dept. at u of t when i was asking him about this stuff.

it makes sense. you need to prevent spikes in neurological activity. if the brain can be entrained to a regular, external source, even to some small degree, it would be quite helpful with this.

also: a lot of people are not willing to spring for surgery, or expensive medications, so there is a great incentive to develop cheaper alternatives like this.

i'll have a look through some proper journals when i get back to toronto, but i'm out of town until the 2nd.

ez!

d

ps this is dope too, people are taking out tons of wierd patents on stuff like this all the time: http://www.raven1.net/3773049.htm

wayne · Post by **wayne** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:34 pm

Auto Pan: Amount 100%, Phase 0%, set rate directly, use on a pad loop.

I seriously doubt that even 1% of the effects listed on that web page are possibly real. Improving eyesight, etc? Sounds like chiropractors to me (they can cure everything by simply adjusting your spine). Plus many of the listed frequencies supposedly work as EM not sound and quite a few are derived backwards: supposed to exist in nature and therefore somehow able to affect us and be good for us.

BUT it has got me thinking that could make my own pink noise for sleeping. (I use a running air filter unit now to mask out noises.) Take some pink noise and add a rhythm of some sort: maybe a riding-in-the-car-like rhythm or a ocean-waves-breaking rhythm.

The Phat Conductor · Post by **The Phat Conductor** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:18 pm

yea, re: the site that compiles the list of all of the frequnecies, i can't vouch for it's reliability beyond the obvious, schumann, 8 hz for the sun/meditation, etc... but the phenomenon of entrainment is real, and there have been some successful applications of it.

also: look up voodoo drumming circles. they use music directly to induce nutted out states. the master drummer establishes a rhythm for the circle, then at the right moment busts into the 'opposite rhythm' which supposedly 'splits the mind' and allowing for posession to take place. saw some documentaries about it with interviews and shit. pretty nutty stuff...

if anyone can find any information about voodoo drum theory, or the neurological basis for their claims i would be VERY interested to hear about it.

oh yea, and that god helmet thing is worht a readup too: http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/

machine609 · Post by **machine609** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:58 pm

Phat, I will not weight in on your comments till I do some research.

As far as the brainwave generator I believe some of its claims are ridiculous and I didn't mean to directly relate subliminal learning tapes, I was just trying to show how there are so many myths around about the brain.

This is an interesting thread.

So yes let's keep this thread alive and maybe we can also discuss the point of how music affects the brain, not just tones. That is very fascinating also.