Computo,
Regarding the maturity of computer music: Considering that our statements were almost opposite of each other, I think the difference is mostly semantic. You are right: compared to what will be happening in computer music in, say, 20 years, the field is in its infancy. However, I am also right: We've reached a stage where complete production/performance of computer music is possible in a single computer. I compare this to the state of things as recently as the late 90s, when PC sequencers dealt in midi only, for example. Or that without other hardware (ie protools) working digitally with audio was beyond the power of a PC.
My point is this: the basic direction we are heading is clear: real-time generation/modification/etc. of audio streams is now and will continue to be how people work (again, as differentiated from not many years ago when the computer served as a midi workstation only, and even the most rudimentary in-computer synthesis required rendering). So I'm arguing that if you were a system designer working on the next generation of Windows or OS X, at this point you could easily begin to imagine the kind of functionality a computer musician would want built into his/her system. And I'm arguing that the improvements coming from Apple and Microsoft are coming at a snail's pace, and it pisses me off.
I promise I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just clarifying my position. I suspect we are substantially in agreement.
bidule vs. max/msp vs. reaktor vs ?
no, i think you're right
Unfortunately, Its going to be a LONG way off, before these companies start considering OUR needs and feelings in the R&D process.
Now and forever, its been "what are pros doing with what we give them?"
Not "how can we give the pros what they want."
And I dont think the programmers give a fuck. certainly not the Apple and PC programmers... They make what will work for anyone, not what specific pros want.
On soundflower, its not an "app" its more of a driver, so what you choose is what you get. If you choose 16ch soundflower as your driver, thats what you're gonna get.
I dont understand your question past that, im afraid.
Unfortunately, Its going to be a LONG way off, before these companies start considering OUR needs and feelings in the R&D process.
Now and forever, its been "what are pros doing with what we give them?"
Not "how can we give the pros what they want."
And I dont think the programmers give a fuck. certainly not the Apple and PC programmers... They make what will work for anyone, not what specific pros want.
On soundflower, its not an "app" its more of a driver, so what you choose is what you get. If you choose 16ch soundflower as your driver, thats what you're gonna get.
I dont understand your question past that, im afraid.
PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
Cool. then it's a driver. Regardless of wether you have an answer to my question, for the record I will make it clearer:computo wrote:no, i think you're right
Unfortunately, Its going to be a LONG way off, before these companies start considering OUR needs and feelings in the R&D process.
Now and forever, its been "what are pros doing with what we give them?"
Not "how can we give the pros what they want."
And I dont think the programmers give a fuck. certainly not the Apple and PC programmers... They make what will work for anyone, not what specific pros want.
On soundflower, its not an "app" its more of a driver, so what you choose is what you get. If you choose 16ch soundflower as your driver, thats what you're gonna get.
I dont understand your question past that, im afraid.
Is there a workaround so that one might be able to run two instances of this application in an agregate device? One reason I ask is because you are proficient in max (from what I know- I at least like your music,) and I wonder, if two instances cannot be used at once, is it not possible to make a slight modification (ie: change the name of one) using max/msp, so that the second instance does not load up with
an error?
I Seriously doubt that I am maxing out the capabilities of my hardware right now with a 16 channel soundflower, 8 channel fw1884, 10 channel fw1814- agregate device, and all I really want is to be able to run 16 stereo pairs (because stereo is my only option) from logic into live. I consider this research in prepeperation for many upcoming decisions regarding purchases and setups.
Thanks anyway.
-
Per Boysen
- Posts: 1058
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:11 pm
- Location: Sweden
- Contact:
Maybe, but that would have been some years ago. I don't feel the urge to go down into "core languages" right now. Lazy?computo wrote:Damn it conny, we'd get along a lot better if you were doing that in MAX!!
Kidding of course.
Bidule for me is just fun. And being part of a community that is still modelling the emerging product in a friendly manner.
Bla bla.
Haven't even looked at the core things in Reaktor... so why did I buy it... uoff...
// C
PC Laptop Acer, XP Home SP2, build in crappy sound card.
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
Bleeps and Blops!
http://bluemoose.greatnow.com/
Thanks, um, yeah I could use rewire but I gave up on it mid summer. Machinesworking made a great post regarding strategies to get around using rewire with soundflower and audiojack and I have not looked back yet. I could not begin to list the benefits that come when each application is enabled to run as a "master," albeit slaved to a 3rd party or single midiclock. I get serious audio glitches using either program together, and I believe that it is picked up from the osx operating system (based on a recent quote from Alex, but this is pure speculation on my behalf,) but far fewer without rewire.computo wrote:cant you do that with rewire?
And no, you cant run aggregate soundflower instances, as far as I know, unless you can figure out a way to convince live to recieve from 2 seperate audio devices at once.
One thing that confuses me in your statement is:
Osx tiger allows you to create aggregate devices from multiple smaller ones. It works like a charm. Even in Live. So (and I don't expect you to know the technical reason for this) if I can, say, link two external personus firepods together as one agregate device, an LIve recieves the agregate with no problems- well, doesn't it seem that their should be a pretty simple workaround to do this with a virtual interface?computo wrote:you cant run aggregate soundflower instances, as far as I know, unless you can figure out a way to convince live to recieve from 2 seperate audio devices at once.
This is all assumptuous on my behalf, I know, but I feel pretty confident about it!
Great idea! I got so caught up in one free device that I completely forgot about the other one!Per Boysen wrote: --> LOFA, Have you considered Jack?
I forget if there is a cap on the number of outs in Jack. If not it will solve my problem. Hopefully I won't need a 3rd variety of free virtual devices! That would surely not help eliminate the pops and clicks that I am getting from virtual instruments when running more than one application together through OSX 10.4.3!-
stratusseeker
- Posts: 103
- Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:07 pm
Immense midi routing options. A whole new dimesion of them. With regards to max/msp, it has been said that part of Live was originally mocked up using it- in other words: Anything. Not limited to even audio, midi and video. There is an interesting video on their homepage where someone is controlling hydraulics with it.tyson wrote:I don't have a good idea of what people are using bidule/max with live for. Anyone willing to reveal some of their secrets?