Using LIVE with Protools, a beginners question...

Needs2Know · Post by **Needs2Know** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:06 am

Well just got PT6.7 w/002 which came with Ableton Live 4 (light). I will upgrade to 5 soon but I'm still struggling to understand how I'm going to use both of these together. BTW I just read Pro Tools 6 P O W E R ! and it only took me A MONTH to do, lol!! Will start tearing into my Albeton book tommarrow *sighs*

My goal is to record/edit audio and midi grooves initially into PT because of: a) the audio/digital converter in the 002, b) the plug ins that I could use to change or enhance the sound, c) because of the plethra of options for Audio and Midi editing.

Then after gettting those grooves(audio/midi events) finalized in PT, and after "bouncing them to disk" into a file on my HD, drag them into LIVE on my same PC and put the project together that way. Which leads me to my question:

What would be the easiest way to go from my project in LIVE, to recording it all into PT. In other words I've got everything sounding good in LIVE but I want to work on every track individually now in PT to make any final changes or to lay down a vocal track.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:17 am

Rewire Live into Pro Tools.

Set up channels in pro tools with the Ableton Live Rewire plugin as inserts, and route tracks from Live to the Rewire outputs. When you arm the tracks in Pro Tools Live's sound should feed thru and you will be able to record these channels.

There's a tutorial on how to Rewire Live and PT together on Abe's site.

Few notes

a) when in rewire mode, Live cannot utilise VST and VSTi's
b) you can use the converters of your 002 with Live if you have the full version..

Needs2Know · Post by **Needs2Know** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:44 am

thanks sweetjesus

So you're saying that with the full version of LIVE, I could be running my synths from LIVE(using midi loops) and monitor the sound of those syths via PT while it records through the 002 into PT6.7 at the same time?

ill get reading on that tutorial...

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:52 am

Needs2Know wrote:thanks sweetjesus

So you're saying that with the full version of LIVE, I could be running my synths from LIVE(using midi loops) and monitor the sound of those syths via PT while it records through the 002 into PT6.7 at the same time?

ill get reading on that tutorial...

yes you can do that.. but if you are in Rewire mode, i think you may have to route the MIDI so it goes like this

LIVE MIDI LOOP > REWIRE > PRO TOOLS MIDI CHANNEL > HARDWARE

what i would recommend is using Live as standalone app, and recording your hardware stuff into Live, once you have recorded all the loops you need and you're happy..you can then easily transfer them into Pro Tools using Rewire as a seperate little process, which is what I do.

The benefit of this is a much more streamlined Pro Tools project. As we both know Pro Tools LE is limited to the amount of voices you can have, so the less mess you have in the project file, the more time you have before you hit the LE limitation brickwall.

Once again, if you record directly into Live, you will be using your 002 as the hardware .. with all the benefits that its converters would have.

edit: I will load up Pro Tools later tonight and confirm the routing for MIDI that i mentioned earlier in this post.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:24 am

i like to use both programs and have been on pt since v 5.

i loved using PT with a mpc2k as my sequencer

and i never rewire pt and live!

its just so easy to take your work from one to the other at any time.

glu · Post by **glu** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:50 pm

Mike, how do you dump music into PTLE from Live if you don't rewire? I don't know how I would dump tracks with vsti's other than bouncing them, is that how you do it? Pro Tools is an awesome platform to work on, I just wish they would up the track count already, some people on the DUC are getting HD1-like power out of their multiprocessors, however it's only with 32 channels, or 16 stereo.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:49 pm

after you resample the track (or you can freeze it)
you close live, open protools, import the audio into protools audio bin, from there it's drag and drop into tracks in the edit window.

stinky · Post by **stinky** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:43 pm

here you go...

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... ort+render

Oh BTW....

i wouldn't suggest using Rewire full time. Just record what you need, and get out... Rewiring into protools sucks ass when you have more than roughly 5 or so tracks, protools midi tracks controlling instruments, and transporting back and forth alot. I've had synch issues, and Live as a rewire slave sucks when you can't use your Vst's.. My workflow usually consists of ableton for everything, except mixing with the Digi control surface (Mixing buss is better in PT, and fader automation is nice

). KISS (keep it simple) is the name of the game when you don't want your creativity to suffer..

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:37 pm

If you are new to both PT and Live (which reading books on both suggest), I think you are overcomplicating your workflow massively.

Both are excellent software studios. You can make excellent music in either of them. Try them both, but then stick to one for your first few projects.

oldbetseysatan · Post by **oldbetseysatan** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:50 pm

I would agree with Michael I think.

I've just been trimming down my Pro Tools projects and messing about with Live via Rewire and I gotta say that while I'm quicker at PT (been using it for 5 years) and can fly around the UI, Live is SO MUCH BETTER at writing it's not even funny.

Just so much more creative.

If I was you, I would just focus on Live for a while, get your head around it and really understand what it offers and then when you need to start getting serious with PT, open the book then.

Have fun,

R.

nicoluminous · Post by **nicoluminous** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:01 am

pro tools is Ok
but you really don't need it with live
I know a good handfull of people that have said
their not using it any more
I followed their lead am am so much
more into working now its just ridiculous
spend a month on live and then try working in protools
its slower than molasses

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:49 am

nicoluminous wrote:pro tools is Ok
but you really don't need it with live
I know a good handfull of people that have said
their not using it any more
I followed their lead am am so much
more into working now its just ridiculous
spend a month on live and then try working in protools
its slower than molasses

For an accurate inthebox mixdown Pro Tools is a much more suitable tool than Live.

Live's faders have no indicators/meters except for a slightly slow green bar which moves up and down... Live's EQ's color the sound... the compressors do not accept a key input, editing is not precise/sample based... arrangement view is slow to deal with...

for a writing tool its awesome, but for turning your music into a finished piece of work it's somewhat lacking.

I'm not looking for Live to be my complete mixdown environment, I like it as an instrument.

Needs2Know · Post by **Needs2Know** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:05 pm

sweetjesus -

ok I see what you're saying. use the 002 to record directly into Live then later on take the completed dealio into PT and finalize the mixdown.

I was messing around with LIVE's midi recording today for the first time. One thing i didnt like what the fact that the input can be set to "All Inputs" but the output midi can only be set for 1 channel. Hence one track in live(or one loop) can run 1 channel at a time. I have an Electribe EMX-1 which has 9 drum parts set to ONE midi channel, and then 5 synth parts ea with its own midi channel(which you set). So im trying to figure out how LIVE can play one pattern at a time. Because I have entire songs made up and saved in the EMX but I want live to run the patterns so I can add stuff to it(more ext synths, one shot audio loops etc).

Based on my limited knowledge so far, I could theoretically record each and every part of every pattern of the song into live but that really isnt too practical as this would take me too long. Plus i would end up with way too many loops and tracks in my session view.

I guess the easiest way to do it would be to record the entire song from the EMX into an Audio format into Live (through the 002) then have Live analyze it and treat the entire song as one clip lol.

Its just with midi running the patterns there might be a way to tweek certain parameters while its playing for remixing purposes or live performance.

...geez 3 coffees after haveing been up all night and this is what you get! lol.

all you guys have been really helpful!

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Sun Jan 01, 2006 2:38 pm

Needs2Know wrote:sweetjesus -

ok I see what you're saying. use the 002 to record directly into Live then later on take the completed dealio into PT and finalize the mixdown.

Good!

Needs2Know wrote: I was messing around with LIVE's midi recording today for the first time. One thing i didnt like what the fact that the input can be set to "All Inputs" but the output midi can only be set for 1 channel. Hence one track in live(or one loop) can run 1 channel at a time. I have an Electribe EMX-1 which has 9 drum parts set to ONE midi channel, and then 5 synth parts ea with its own midi channel(which you set). So im trying to figure out how LIVE can play one pattern at a time. Because I have entire songs made up and saved in the EMX but I want live to run the patterns so I can add stuff to it(more ext synths, one shot audio loops etc).

Based on my limited knowledge so far, I could theoretically record each and every part of every pattern of the song into live but that really isnt too practical as this would take me too long. Plus i would end up with way too many loops and tracks in my session view.

I think that that for a quality production, you may need to follow this method. It's tedious, but it will also supply you with a library of material which you can later repurpose.

It may look like too many tracks, but tracks can be resized and to be honest having 16 tracks isn't that big a deal. I've got projects with 60+

You will probably end up grouping certain elements together as you do this, so it won't be too bad.

To cut down on midi channels, can you put more than one of the parts on the electribe on the same midi channel for receiving?

Needs2Know wrote:I guess the easiest way to do it would be to record the entire song from the EMX into an Audio format into Live (through the 002) then have Live analyze it and treat the entire song as one clip lol.

Its just with midi running the patterns there might be a way to tweek certain parameters while its playing for remixing purposes or live performance.

...geez 3 coffees after haveing been up all night and this is what you get! lol.

all you guys have been really helpful!

As you use the two systems together, you will come to terms with how wish to use them. Sometimes you will record complete chunks as one loop from the electribe, and other times you will record parts individually. There will be no set rules and every different project will require a different approach as best fit.

I don't know if they still do this, but when i got my pro tools stuff with the cut down version of Live, there was a 50% discount voucher for the full version of Live. I'd take advantage of that if I were you, and if you don't get the card, i'd still get Live if I were you.

Using LIVE with Protools, a beginners question...

Using LIVE with Protools, a beginners question...

dump pro tools all tohether

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