How do you get a great digital recording from a good (Ernie Ball - MusicMan)
Bass Guitar with original pick-ups going to a MXR Bass D.I. box then to a Mackie 1402 Mixing Board then to an Audiophile 2496 Soundcard all with Monster cables, sound good ?
My recordings sound weak, thin and wack. I do have expierence with plug-ins but i can't get the recordings to sound professional.
Thank you in advance and have a happy holiday !
Recording Bass Guitar
professional??? What type of music silly?
Anyways, I have a very mellow sounding Gibson. I use different settings for different moods. Most often I embrace the mellow nature of my bass model.
Sometimes just line in thru the mixer to the 24/96 at 24bit 44.1khz, into a mono channel in Live with two Waves C1 compressors or Waves Audiotrack.
The first compressor often ends up having a mid db range threshold with around 1.3 to 1.9 ratio...then the next compressor is adjusted about 5db below the peak input level and set anywhere from a 2 to 5 to 1 ratio and attack and release are automated later during mixdown. Also I love the Waves R-Bass.
other things I do have included close micing my little backstage peavy along with recording line in at the same time. I also put thru the andromeda filters along with the dry signal.
Also, the Saturator is really cool sounding on bass guitar. Lately Ive been really learning alot about how to make the sound fit into the context of the rest of the mix, using dynamic inserts and other utilities. It feels good to have as much control I can over the tools that I have. Thats what i do for now, and if what im doin now matures properly and is well recieved by listeners, I will expand into more spendy setups.
good luck to all of us.
Anyways, I have a very mellow sounding Gibson. I use different settings for different moods. Most often I embrace the mellow nature of my bass model.
Sometimes just line in thru the mixer to the 24/96 at 24bit 44.1khz, into a mono channel in Live with two Waves C1 compressors or Waves Audiotrack.
The first compressor often ends up having a mid db range threshold with around 1.3 to 1.9 ratio...then the next compressor is adjusted about 5db below the peak input level and set anywhere from a 2 to 5 to 1 ratio and attack and release are automated later during mixdown. Also I love the Waves R-Bass.
other things I do have included close micing my little backstage peavy along with recording line in at the same time. I also put thru the andromeda filters along with the dry signal.
Also, the Saturator is really cool sounding on bass guitar. Lately Ive been really learning alot about how to make the sound fit into the context of the rest of the mix, using dynamic inserts and other utilities. It feels good to have as much control I can over the tools that I have. Thats what i do for now, and if what im doin now matures properly and is well recieved by listeners, I will expand into more spendy setups.
good luck to all of us.
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jondasutra
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 8:29 pm
Thank you for the information. I'll defintly try multiple plug ins on a ableton track. Then resample it if it gets to CPU intensive. Thank you for sending the ratios and attack times etc.. that you use. I think i'll be using them number for number. Im mainly doing hip-hop stuff.
I was considering buying the ProSonus Comp 16 and the EQ, each for $100. Will that help or is it just a waste of money ?
I was considering buying the ProSonus Comp 16 and the EQ, each for $100. Will that help or is it just a waste of money ?
using a hardware comp set to limit before hitting the soundcard should allow you to get alot more signal into the 'puter without clipping. vst is after the fact, so you can get more gain inside the 'puter but you will have less signal to noise ratio. you could try less compression ratio to just limit extreme peaks and keep dynamics or alot of ratio and slam it for a big consistent sound.
quick attack/release for pure limiting or a longer release for added sustain/effected sound. either way a quick attack is best to control peaks. a slower attack and release will result in a "pumping" type of sound, this is used on percussive sounds alot.
cheers
doug
quick attack/release for pure limiting or a longer release for added sustain/effected sound. either way a quick attack is best to control peaks. a slower attack and release will result in a "pumping" type of sound, this is used on percussive sounds alot.
cheers
doug
Hell ya....
Ive been trying to tinker with setting the compressor envelopes to pump along, during groovy grooves, to the beat in a quantized type manner...It is really easy to do on a loop or if the playing is pretty consistant thru the duration of the particular gruuv. ya just turn the millisec into bpm, usually ends up bein 1/16 or 1/8, but the env setting is dependant upon it's relationship with peak level, threshold...and ratio..i geuss. I think it sounds cool on bass guitar lines....is this alot like side chaining...i think it is. I geuss the difference with sidechain is that the 'sidechain' is the envelope snapper as apposed to the insert signal....oh, and the way i decide on the envelope times is dependant on the nature of the audio segment.....but like i said ive done it on 1/8 and 1/16 note values for the most part...... and sort of matching it to the kick and snare as best as i can.
Has anyone tried this?
Ive been trying to tinker with setting the compressor envelopes to pump along, during groovy grooves, to the beat in a quantized type manner...It is really easy to do on a loop or if the playing is pretty consistant thru the duration of the particular gruuv. ya just turn the millisec into bpm, usually ends up bein 1/16 or 1/8, but the env setting is dependant upon it's relationship with peak level, threshold...and ratio..i geuss. I think it sounds cool on bass guitar lines....is this alot like side chaining...i think it is. I geuss the difference with sidechain is that the 'sidechain' is the envelope snapper as apposed to the insert signal....oh, and the way i decide on the envelope times is dependant on the nature of the audio segment.....but like i said ive done it on 1/8 and 1/16 note values for the most part...... and sort of matching it to the kick and snare as best as i can.
Has anyone tried this?
Before buying something I'd try debugging first.jondasutra wrote:How do you get a great digital recording from a good (Ernie Ball - MusicMan)
Bass Guitar with original pick-ups going to a MXR Bass D.I. box then to a Mackie 1402 Mixing Board then to an Audiophile 2496 Soundcard all with Monster cables, sound good ?
My recordings sound weak, thin and wack. I do have expierence with plug-ins but i can't get the recordings to sound professional.
Thank you in advance and have a happy holiday !
- When does the sound start to become weak?
- What's the sound on the headphones like when you plug your headphones into the 1402?
- What happens if you leave away the DI and use a short cable only?
- What's the sound like if you connect a CD player to your 1402 and record it?
I don't play bass but simply tuning my guitar's E down to A (plugged right into my Fireface) produces a sound that is not weak at all.
oh yeah, do what animal says and then...
This idea includes only Live's plugin effects.
Live's compressors are pretty good too, I like waves more but they took more than one of my paychecks to get.
Try using a chain consisting of EQ4 and compressor or compressor2....then put auto filters on the return tracks and maybe a compressor following them. set the filters how ever you like, im not going say much about that except i doubt the mod sweeping should be active all the time.....try it out, if you wonder more post another reply.
This idea includes only Live's plugin effects.
Live's compressors are pretty good too, I like waves more but they took more than one of my paychecks to get.
Try using a chain consisting of EQ4 and compressor or compressor2....then put auto filters on the return tracks and maybe a compressor following them. set the filters how ever you like, im not going say much about that except i doubt the mod sweeping should be active all the time.....try it out, if you wonder more post another reply.
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how_gauche
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:54 pm
- Location: Torontopia!
- Contact:
very green
I usually record live instruments to a Korg D32XD 34 track (digital) machine but have gotten curious (maybe too curious) about using the computer.
I've got a powerful enough computer (1.0GB memory, 200GB hard drive Pentium 4) but maybe I bought some incompatible computer programs and downloads...
I've got the Live 5, a soundblaster X-fi sound card and an m-audio firewire solo interface....
but I can't get the firewire to deliver analog input to Live 5.
what am I doing wrong, what have I done wrong and will I ever get it right?
help me if you can, I'm feeling down....
I've got a powerful enough computer (1.0GB memory, 200GB hard drive Pentium 4) but maybe I bought some incompatible computer programs and downloads...
I've got the Live 5, a soundblaster X-fi sound card and an m-audio firewire solo interface....
but I can't get the firewire to deliver analog input to Live 5.
what am I doing wrong, what have I done wrong and will I ever get it right?
help me if you can, I'm feeling down....
I get a great sound from my Carvin 6 string and my custom fretless 4 by just plugging straight into my RME and recording directly in Live. I usually add Waves C1 compressor (Live's Compressor 1 also works fine) and some eq. My compressor settings are as follows, fairly typical for bass:
threshold -5.1
ratio: 3:1
attack: 42
release: 211
then I adjust the output slider to as close a possible to going in the red but not hitting red.
For the eq, I often just use a Live EQ4 with a low shelf kicked up a few dB, like a smiley-face eq without the hi-end right side of the smiley-face. I usually boost around 80-120 Hz, and have the second eq band in the EQ4 around 500 Hz, to that I'm boosting around 100 and tapering that down to no boost at 500.
Are you getting a strong waveform as you record--are the loudest parts of your basslines near the top and bottom of the limits for the waveform (ie as close to clipping as possible without clipping)? Thats what you want--a strong waveform but not clipping--sometimes a weak signal can result in a weak sound. Try using compression and eq, maybe try adjusting the gain on your mixer if the signal is weak, or try not using the direct box. Has this bass sounded good in other direct recording situations? If so, try to figure out what gear and approach was used to get the good sound. I'd avoid using compression and effects on the way into Live--best to get a good strong signal in without effects and then carefully adjust effects to suit the song. If you use them on the way in, you have no recourse--it is a done deal, you can't change settings or go back in time, and you really don't want to effect on the way in, and then compress and eq again--generally not a good idea. Obviously crank the volume on your bass to full and adjust the mixer gain to get a strong signal but not clipping. Thats all I can think of...
Ryan
threshold -5.1
ratio: 3:1
attack: 42
release: 211
then I adjust the output slider to as close a possible to going in the red but not hitting red.
For the eq, I often just use a Live EQ4 with a low shelf kicked up a few dB, like a smiley-face eq without the hi-end right side of the smiley-face. I usually boost around 80-120 Hz, and have the second eq band in the EQ4 around 500 Hz, to that I'm boosting around 100 and tapering that down to no boost at 500.
Are you getting a strong waveform as you record--are the loudest parts of your basslines near the top and bottom of the limits for the waveform (ie as close to clipping as possible without clipping)? Thats what you want--a strong waveform but not clipping--sometimes a weak signal can result in a weak sound. Try using compression and eq, maybe try adjusting the gain on your mixer if the signal is weak, or try not using the direct box. Has this bass sounded good in other direct recording situations? If so, try to figure out what gear and approach was used to get the good sound. I'd avoid using compression and effects on the way into Live--best to get a good strong signal in without effects and then carefully adjust effects to suit the song. If you use them on the way in, you have no recourse--it is a done deal, you can't change settings or go back in time, and you really don't want to effect on the way in, and then compress and eq again--generally not a good idea. Obviously crank the volume on your bass to full and adjust the mixer gain to get a strong signal but not clipping. Thats all I can think of...
Ryan
Dell Studio XPS 8100 Windows 7 64-bit, 10 GB RAM. RME Multiface, Avalon U5 & M5, Distressor, Filter Factory, UC33e, BCR-2000, FCB1010, K-Station, Hr 824 & H120 sub, EZ Bus, V-Drums, DrumKat EZ, basses, guitars, pedals... http://www.ryan-hughes.net
Slap Bass
How would you guys go about getting a decent Slap Bass tone. Whatever I try in live, it just ends up sounding poo.
Using a Warwick Streamer Std 5-string ----> Bass POD (sometimes DI, sometimes use the PODs effects/amp mod.) ----> Behringer 1002 Mixer ----> Audiophile 2496 Card ----> Live 5.
Tried combinations of EQ4, Compressor, PSP Vintage Warmer etc... but cant get a good tone.
Could it be:
-that my bass is passive, rather than active?
-pickups on bass (MEC)?
-Bass POD ? Should I get a good plain DI?
I'm looking for a similar tone to Les Claypool's "Purple Onion" album, which hard to describe, but is warm, bright slap tone. I know, I know, i'll never get exatcly the same (don't use CT basses, or same type of strings, or exact equipment etc.) - but I must be able to get near. Right now, i'm not in even on the same continent, so to speak!
Thanks!
Using a Warwick Streamer Std 5-string ----> Bass POD (sometimes DI, sometimes use the PODs effects/amp mod.) ----> Behringer 1002 Mixer ----> Audiophile 2496 Card ----> Live 5.
Tried combinations of EQ4, Compressor, PSP Vintage Warmer etc... but cant get a good tone.
Could it be:
-that my bass is passive, rather than active?
-pickups on bass (MEC)?
-Bass POD ? Should I get a good plain DI?
I'm looking for a similar tone to Les Claypool's "Purple Onion" album, which hard to describe, but is warm, bright slap tone. I know, I know, i'll never get exatcly the same (don't use CT basses, or same type of strings, or exact equipment etc.) - but I must be able to get near. Right now, i'm not in even on the same continent, so to speak!
Thanks!
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ReverendShank
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:14 am
- Location: Louisville,KY
Have you thought about filtering or doing post editing. The auto filter is by far my favorite tool to use on any track, especially bass. Record a clip, and try the filter on band pass mode to get more of a rounded speaker tone. For slap, try the notch. In both instances, sweep the freq until you get the tone you are looking for. I also use Peak as a sample editor and normalize most of my tracks before mixdown, if you are on windows, try Wavelab. You can also use "utility" to boost signal. On a spatial tip, try a simple delay with 1ms on left, 20ms on right, or vice versa with 100% effects mix Audio saturation is another option, so try doing a left, right, and center track.
RevShank