Need some serious advice, possible move from powerbook to PC

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:19 am

So as much as I love my mac powerbook (except for the slowness), I'm really starting to want power, and I've been considering moving over to a new centrino laptop. But now there are so many new developments, I'm going cross-eyed.

Here's the nits and grits:

originally, I had a mac because of logic, now that I'm switching over to live, that's not a concern, and I just don't use Live with this setup so long as logic is kicking its ass performance wise. switching to a centrino lappy would force me happily into live. I'm a bit concerned that I've grown attached to OSX, and would find the transition to windows difficult, as I'm no computer guru. It would be good to get to know windows better though.

I've been checking out some toshiba laptops that are attracting my attention, as well as the dual core dells, but then there's the matter of tablets, which I don't know that much about. Does anyone have strong opinions about these for music making? Suggestions?

And finally, there is of course the matter of the new macbooks. I wouldn't want to depend on these during the transition period, but what would interest me is if windows worked as well on these new machines as it does in other PC's right off the bat, so that I could go back to OSX after the dust settles, and things are reportedly working well. Is Live and other third-party plug-ins supposed to work immediately in windows on the new macbooks? Do you think it would be as fast as an equivalent speed of,say, dell?

I know I'm blabbin' here but I guess it comes down to this: A centrino laptop, dual core or not, tablet/no tablet, or new macbook pro (with windows installed for a while to run Live etc.)

I really appreciate any comments and insight you guys could give me here, I'm trying hard to figure out the best move,

kind regards,

grb

jms5881 · Post by **jms5881** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:25 pm

Whatever, pc you go with get as much cpu speed and memory as possible. Strip the pc down so performance will be geared towards your production utilities. Live runs great on pc with no problems. Just needs plenty of speed and memory. I have a AMD 3200+ with 1 gig ram. My machine is a bit dated but is holding up great. I wouldn't go with anything less or you will have trouble with large files and DAW operations.

http://musicxp.net/services.php
This is a cool site for setting up windows xp for running music apps. I employ most of these changes. Just use this as a guide, not all these changes are necassary.

I am interested in the performance differences between intel and amd. I am happy with amd but I have not extensivly used live on a intel cpu.

cheers

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:43 pm

I appreciate the link, thanks.

Anyone have any thoughts on running windows on the new intel macs? Is it supposed to run as smoothly as on a PC?

cheers,

grb

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:49 pm

For simplicity sake, you could just assume that Macs are now just PCs that they are allowing to run OSX. No more, no less.

gomi · Post by **gomi** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:50 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I appreciate the link, thanks.

Anyone have any thoughts on running windows on the new intel macs? Is it supposed to run as smoothly as on a PC?

cheers,

grb

You will be unable to run windows on the new intel macs.

the new intel macs do NOT have a bios. which is required by
windows.

the bios is an ancient technology (in terms of computers)
it's amazing windows has been using it for so very long..

"With the announcement of the first Intel based Macs yesterday, many users have rejoiced in being able to dual-boot both Mac OS X and Windows. Unfortunately, this is not the case; due to Apple's use of the extensible firmware interface (EFI) rather than BIOS, current Windows releases will not run on the systems," Nate Mook reports for BetaNews. "On Tuesday at Macworld, Apple senior vice president of worldwide product marketing Phil Schiller said the company would not specifically block the use of Windows on Mac hardware. Instead, limitations in Windows itself will prevent its use on the new MacBook Pro laptop and iMac."

"With the switch to Intel processors, Apple also moved from Open Firmware to EFI, which is an updated BIOS specification developed by Intel," Mook reports. "Microsoft's 64-bit versions of Windows will also not work despite supporting EFI, because Apple's Intel platform is strictly 32-bit at the moment. For its part, Microsoft encouraged Apple to build hardware compatible with Windows. 'We have an open specification and a process for certifying the hardware. We welcome all efforts in this area and we'd support Apple the same way we support every other PC manufacturer,' a company spokesperson told BetaNews. 'Anyone, including Apple, can purchase and re-sell Windows for use on their industry-standard hardware.'"

Full article with more details and links

http://www.betanews.com/article/XP_Wont ... 1137003330

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:54 pm

the new macbooks boot from EFI , where XP boots from a PC BIOS.

I don't know if there is a windows hack that will boot from EFI , Longhorn will boot from EFI.
I dont know if you will be able to boot XP on a MacBook in the near future, at least until someone digs up an XP port that boots from EFI. I'm no genius on this stuff BTW - for all I know you can use the mini-shell functions of EFI to boot win

Wikipedia explanation of EFI

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:01 pm

Angstrom wrote:the new macbooks boot from EFI , where XP boots from a PC BIOS.

I don't know if there is a windows hack that will boot from EFI , Longhorn will boot from EFI.

I dont know if you will be able to boot XP on a MacBook in the near future, at least until someone digs up an XP port that boots from EFI

Somehow it would make sense for microsoft to do that. They're obviously not making anything on mac OEM deals

They try to make an OS for everything electronic that doesn't have an apple on it.....
OH!! wait a minute, here's their chance.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:06 pm

EFI has a shell which emulates a Bios and thus XP should work on the new mactels. But once again, let's wait and see just how it goes with the first shipments.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:08 pm

hmm, yes I just noticed an interesting related comment in that linked betanews article, from Dan Warne

http://www.betanews.com/article/XP_Wont ... 30#c162270

All Intel 945 chipset boards support EFI and boot Windows no problems.

Intel recently created a new compatibility layer for EFI to allow standard x86 operating systems that don't directly support EFI to boot.
See: http://www.intel.com/technology/framework/
Also, this Q&A is useful on the subject:
http://www.intel.com/tec...ogy/framework/qanda.htm
Especially this bit:
"Yes. The Framework provides the capability to support legacy BIOS interfaces through the Compatibility Support Module (CSM), allowing the system vendors to continue using the operating systems and tools they use today as they make a gradual and managed transition to EFI. A typical CSM is approximately 60 KB (38 KB compressed) of firmware that is specific to each Participating BIOS Vendor and is based on that Vendor's latest BIOS code base."
Presumably Apple didn't try to write its own BIOS, so one would imagine that a Compatibility Support Module is available for the motherboard use in Intel Macs. I hope anyway.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:09 pm

Just upgraded myself to an IBM T43 with a 7200RPM Drive. 1.86 Centrino with a gig of memory. It kicks ass. If you play your cards right you could score something like this for a resonable price, use it for a while until Live and OSx are happry on the Macbooks. Sell your PC laptop for a little hit... Laptops hold their value alot better then a desktop and go back to being a Mac head when it makes sense.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:50 am

Moody wrote:Just upgraded myself to an IBM T43 with a 7200RPM Drive. 1.86 Centrino with a gig of memory. It kicks ass. If you play your cards right you could score something like this for a resonable price, use it for a while until Live and OSx are happry on the Macbooks. Sell your PC laptop for a little hit... Laptops hold their value alot better then a desktop and go back to being a Mac head when it makes sense.

That's the way I'm leaning, so now I'm wondering about tablets. I'm wondering if it would be that much better, if at all. maybe it would be amazing. guess I'll have to see one in action.

With the mactels, we'll just have to see if live runs well, if at all, on the windows via the bios emulation or however it works.

Thinking about trying the PC side of things. Am I crazy.... we'll see.

grb

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:28 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:
Moody wrote:Just upgraded myself to an IBM T43 with a 7200RPM Drive. 1.86 Centrino with a gig of memory. It kicks ass. If you play your cards right you could score something like this for a resonable price, use it for a while until Live and OSx are happry on the Macbooks. Sell your PC laptop for a little hit... Laptops hold their value alot better then a desktop and go back to being a Mac head when it makes sense.
That's the way I'm leaning, so now I'm wondering about tablets. I'm wondering if it would be that much better, if at all. maybe it would be amazing. guess I'll have to see one in action.

With the mactels, we'll just have to see if live runs well, if at all, on the windows via the bios emulation or however it works.

Thinking about trying the PC side of things. Am I crazy.... we'll see.

grb

You probably are but I do not think I want to be the test dummie for the new Macbook with my music setup. When it comes to music, I just want it to work. Plus, you won't have to take that initial hit in the pocket book either. Let the hype deflate a little and then re-weigh your options. IMO

err_fatale · Post by **err_fatale** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:56 am

GET A FUKKIN TABLET PC!!!! I can't praise these things ENOUGH!!!!
Using LIVE on a TABLET is BLISS!!!!!!!!!
the knobs are a little buggy but u get used to it and it is just so much cooler than the MOUSE....

err_fatale · Post by **err_fatale** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:06 am

My suggestions:

Toshiba Tecra M4
with up to 128 MB dedicated graphics memory to free your ram FOR YOUR MUSIC, 2.13 gHZ sonoma Pentium M pricey but worth it, tried it it's the absolute shizzy, mines in the mail...

cheaper but very nice is the Gateway cx2608 going for $1250-$1350 at your local Best Buy or CompUSA
excellent pen response, great widescreen, I love mine

http://www.gateway.com/products/gconfig ... =gtwycx200

HP TC4200 small, no optical (disc drive) to keep the weight under 5 lbs (4.5 lbs to be exact)
great screen great touchpad and solid futuristic design. No Firewire but USB 2.0 is OK and just get an external DVD rom drive for $100

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm ... 57948.html

they are all super configurable to meet your budget and needs, the cheapest being the Gateway which is solid with a Intel 740 1.73 Ghz Pentium M. You can order it from Gateway now for $1199.00. Get it with the ATI Radeon X800 if you do, always get a dedicated graphics card (GPU) if possible, it helps the overall performance. Isn't necessary, but helps a little. For music stuff the Intel GMA (graphics media accelerator) 915GM is fine, but dedicated graphics is always a little better as your audio and visual output get their own memory instead of "sharing" (fighting over???) it.

err_fatale · Post by **err_fatale** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 7:08 am

I'm telling you I haven't enjoyed making electronic music on a comuter this much since I first got into it....

not to mention great for graphics stuff if you're into that....