Some tunes wont warp correctly no matter what??!!

Gtrance · Post by **Gtrance** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:02 pm

serotoninsteve wrote:Hi Gtrance,
what you experience IS a bug! I guess the tunes are 320 kB tunes, very recent stuff? There must be a problem with a codec wich is used by the downloadsites like beatport and trackitdown for the moment, it happens only on recently downloaded stuff for me.
The only thing you can do is hit the replace button in clip view, go to the decoding cache and load the respective .wav from there and hit save. Then the problem has gone, no matter if you use quicktime or not, it´s definately an ableton bug. Don´t forget to move the wav and there .asd´s from the decoding cache to the desired location and put your mp3´s with their respective .asd in a folder called "buggy mp3´s for the moment" until this one is sorted out.

Here is another thread about this bug:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

and not one word what it could be from the Abes!

Greetings

Have tried replacing the file with the one from the decoding cache like you said but it still doesnt work. Any ideas???

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:46 pm

What happens if you load a wav from the decoding cache directly into session?I mean one wich not already has it´s .asd. It should be loaded as a new wav and play fine after warping at new.
If you replace the file as before, you need to adjust your markers one time to get them back in sync. Click on 1st marker, ctrl+a , adjust and that should do the trick. If not, then I don´t know.
Back later.

Greetings

Gtrance · Post by **Gtrance** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:03 pm

No ive tried bringing it in as a complete new wav file and no asd file and it still goes all out of sync. looks like im gonna have to wait for a patch to sort it out and hope it dont happen too often

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:29 pm

if it still goes out of sync, then maybe its the tune itself.

it really isnt that uncommon. this weekend i have warped approx 100 tracks (just recording my entire vinyl collection) all of which are techno and breakbeat.

i have had at least 10 tracks that fall out of sync suddenly by half a note or quaver.

if you set the 1st marker to beat 1, right click and say warp from here straight, then listen to the track until it looses sync. set the next marker on the last in sync beat, set another marker on where first out of sync beat should start, then adjust the 3rd marker till tune in sync again.

i have had a couple of tune where you need to do this 3 times in the track, its the way they have been written. to make it harder for djs to play their tunes.

adam beyer, meat katie, ignitian technitian, and lee coombs all do it.

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:54 pm

When a track drops a beat or quaver or whatever, don't warp it out to "fix" it. It's meant to be there, it's part of the feel of the tune. The easy solution is just to set your quantize to as low as you need (eg 1/8).

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:28 am

Splashmas wrote:When a track drops a beat or quaver or whatever, don't warp it out to "fix" it. It's meant to be there, it's part of the feel of the tune. The easy solution is just to set your quantize to as low as you need (eg 1/8).

What your saying is correct, but he has that problem where the track fall out of sync, one assumes that if he needs it in sync, he intends to DJ with it, therefore, a tightly in - sync tune is ehat he needs, and the feel for a track feels bad when it soundslike some old manual mahine gun going off.

Hedroom · Post by **Hedroom** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:33 am

Agreed. But if the tune just drops a quaver then working in 1/8 quantize when triggering clips solves the problem if you know your tracks well enough.

Is just me being picky though - sorry

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:53 am

Thats it, if you know your tracks you will realize these things.

Also a good point on how important it is to be able to dj with a pair of decks before learning Live, you learn how tight beats sound.

Gtrance · Post by **Gtrance** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:44 pm

Cheers for the advice but like seretonin steve says it almost certainly is a bug in my case. My brother has some of the same tunes as me and they are fine with him so the tune itself should be ok. All tracks im using arent from vinyl which often speeds up or slows down slightly but from download sites like beatport etc. Also Im not just talking about it going slightly out of sync. im talking about certain parts being practically unwarpable cause no matter where you place and move warp markers it is still way out of sync

serotoninsteve · Post by **serotoninsteve** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:37 pm

Is the waveform/warpmarkers still jumping while zooming in and out at a specific level? Replacing my mp3´s by their wavs sorted the problem out, so if you still have problems then is something else wrong.

I´ve warped a lot of tracks, and older productions or vinyl rips often don´t start on the 1 after breakdowns, I´ve always fixed this by sligly moving my markers to keep them in sync. If you don´t do it your track will clash against the others, means you´ll hear a snare at all 1/4th measure, yeah it´s still in "sync" but does sound awfull. If a track is off by about 1/8th after a breakdown, then it´s due to an imperfect timing while producing or recording (a jumped needle somewhere perhaps) but surely not intended in a proffessional way. I´m not talking about a slighly variing tempo to give the track it´s feel.

Greetings

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:51 am

I do honestly believe that it is not a bug if you are experiencing these problems with wav files.

some tracks are difficult to warp, try looping a bar at a time and getting a little bit done.

All tracks im using arent from vinyl which often speeds up or slows down slightly but from download sites like beatport etc

it really doesnt matter if tracks come from vinyl or beatport. all dance tracks are done on a computer, and then sold on a format which can be mp3, vinyl and CD.

If vinyl slows down or speeds up slightly then that would be pretty crap for djing with wouldnt it, and people have been doing that for what? 30 - 40 years?

If you still think you have a bug then fair enough, but if you havnt got a bug when you think you have, and you avoid those tracks - you are never going to get good at warping.

I warp most tracks in under a minute, easy ones that is.

sometimes i come across tracks (aphex twin is usually quite trying) that i need to spend ages on (possibly 1-2 hours) till i get the whole thing nice and tight.

Also with techno, a lot of artists like the element of suprise when droping a tune back in, just to early or a couple of beats to late.

Gtrance · Post by **Gtrance** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:02 pm

Trust me. I know how to warp tunes. have warped plenty and some have involved placing warp markers very often to keep it in sync. But in some tunes the wave form literally jumps from one place to another. This makes it difficult as Im not sure where the beat actually is anymore. On top of this at parts the tune goes completly out of sync. not after breakdown or nothing. might only be 25 bars in. its bang on then goes way out literally all of a sudden. I then place warp marker just before it goes out and then move markers after it goes out to line it up but still wont sync on every beat. ive even tried doing one beat at a time but suddenly tune is completly out of tempo. Can only assume this is beacuse the wavefrom jumps as i zoom in so what i think is the beat is actually something else.

Main point as ive mentioned before is my brother has some of these same tunes on his computer and they warp completly fine. after emailing trackitdown they have allowed me to download problem tunes again. Im going to try warping these afresh and see if that helps..

seretoninsteve dont ask me why but doing it from the wav file doesnt seem to have changed anything at all unfortuantely.

ill keep you all posted on how i get on with the new downloads...

Gtrance · Post by **Gtrance** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:22 pm

Have downloaded tunes again from trackitdown and they now all warp perfectly. Bizarre stuff but at least they are working now. hoping it dont happen to often in the future but we'll have to see. cheers for all the replies and advice though eveybody.

wilxon wrote:
If vinyl slows down or speeds up slightly then that would be pretty crap for djing with wouldnt it, and people have been doing that for what? 30 - 40 years?

Vinyl does tend to slow down or speed up ever so slightly if the vinyl is slightly bent or warped. this is not unusual and when a dj hears it go out of sync he will give it a slight nudge to bring it back in.

In abelton i have fair few tunes from vinyl that require a lot of warp markers where as ones from beatport etc tend to only need one or two at the most.

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:18 am

sure ok.

If you want you can emil me a problem tune and see if i can do it. If i can then the problem can only be with yourself or your setup etc.

If your brother can warp the same tunes without hassle, have you tried copying the asd file from your brother and see if it stays in sync?

i know it isnt a cure if you do have a bug, but it may help to understand the situation a bit better.

Also - have you reported it to the abes?

wilxon · Post by **wilxon** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:23 am

i will only charge £5, using methods only known by studio engineers.

(did anyone see that advert on ebay?)