How do you make a kick more bouncy?

dontknow · Post by **dontknow** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:14 am

How do you make a kick more bouncy? and not sound as a boring sound..

Toufas · Post by **Toufas** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:00 pm

add some fx?:P

mr-e · Post by **mr-e** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:25 pm

hmmm , which FX?

never seem to find the right formula myself , i always and up with something muddy , never that rigth thumb in the stomach

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:28 pm

hehe, sorry, but that's about the same question as: "how do I make better music". It all depends on what you have to work with, and what kind of sound you're looking for (afaik, there isn't any real objective definition of a "bouncy kick" )

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:45 pm

Try using a kick with a long gate reverb on it, drag into simpler and set trigger mode to gate and a long decay, now you can vary the amount of gate by using longer and shorter notes.

Use 2 slightly different kicks, and alternate between them.

Layer different kicks on the same beat and use simpler to remove the attack part of one of them with sample start offset, for example use a low 808 kick as the 'body' by removing the attack part with start offset of the sample, and put it in gate trigger mode, now you can add more or less bottom end by playing both at the same time and using longer and shorter notes for the 808 part of the sound to add more or less bottom.

If you have 2 or more strokes of kicks, for example a buildup, use velocity to create dynamics.

Use a sidechain compressor on the kick to duck the volume of your bass track, this will create a lot of bounce, if you don't have a compressor with a sidechain you can turn down the velocity of any note on your bass track that triggers at the same time as your kicks, not as good as a sidechain and more work but it will help create that bounce.

Experiment

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:46 pm

The standard receipe is compression and EQ. Compression is extremely vital if you want a mix to sound "modern". We are so used to hearing heavily compressed music that we think stuff without heavy compression sounds boring and flat.

This isn't really a good thing, but that is how the world is today.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:50 pm

yep. You can easily add extra snap to an already compressed dull kick sound with a compressor, if you get the attack time just right.

smog g · Post by **smog g** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:42 pm

@michael sw: yes thas a shame with the over-compression. kills dynamics.
ive seen a statistic whow much the average volume of tracks increased over the last decades. terrible. maybe we will listen to canstantly 0db music in 5years if this process is going on....

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:21 pm

michael sw wrote:

The standard receipe is compression and EQ. Compression is extremely vital if you want a mix to sound "modern". We are so used to hearing heavily compressed music that we think stuff without heavy compression sounds boring and flat.

This isn't really a good thing, but that is how the world is today.

oh, i agree... the compressor is a vital and very important element in the production chain, but by FAR TO OFTEN TOTALLY ABUSED AND MISSUNDERSTOOD!!! and i have to say mainly from electronic music artists.

however in moderate settings (there is no one fits all settings!!!) a compressor and an EQ maybee plus gate, should give you a direction...
to achieve the sound YOU are looking for.

here is a one of the best, really best artikels about compression and the principal behind it... plus it's super funny

, i have seen it on http://www.recording.org a highly professionel Forum. for... well, recording music --- just follow the link and read / scroll to the reply of a guy called 'TheRealShotgun' i promise it's worth it, even the text is awfully long.... enjoy and try to understnd what he is talking about, it will improve your production skills....

ok, here is the link to the artikel, enjoy reading and learning.

http://www.recording.org/modules.php?na ... 69&start=0

cheers

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:28 pm

Most electronic music deliberately uses compression as an effect to get a specific sound, a dance/trance track using contemporary compression techniques where you go for transparency in compression will result in a muddy garbled mess.

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:48 pm

ILTK wrote:

Most electronic music deliberately uses compression as an effect to get a specific sound, a dance/trance track using contemporary compression techniques where you go for transparency in compression will result in a muddy garbled mess.

if you think that 'non' electronic music is not using in many cases heavy, coloured compression as an effect, in order to 'shape' a sound, then, well, you are simply totally missinformed or you simply don't understand compression, nor the artikel... (no personal offense intended!)

ILTK wrote:

using contemporary compression techniques where you go for transparency in compression will result in a muddy garbled mess.

what i mean if this happens, then you don't know how to use and apply compression propperly, it's not 'the transparency' of a compressor that makes it garbled it's YOU!!

oposite, every good mastering engineer (talking about real Pro mastering) will use utterly 'transparent' compressors to kick the living hell out of your tracks. (ok, combined with other things / treatmeants he will use!)

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:26 pm

if you think that 'non' electronic music is not using in many cases heavy, coloured compression as an effect, in order to 'shape' a sound, then, well, you are simply totally missinformed or you simply don't understand compression, nor the artikel... (no personal offense intended!)

Where was it exactly I said anything about non electronic music not using compression like this?

Don't put words into my mouth.

what i mean if this happens, then you don't know how to use and apply compression propperly, it's not 'the transparency' of a compressor that makes it garbled it's YOU!!

Sorry, but you are wrong.

oposite, every good mastering engineer (talking about real Pro mastering) will use utterly 'transparent' compressors to kick the living hell out of your tracks. (ok, combined with other things / treatmeants he will use!)

So we are talking about mastering ( Let's throw in PRO to make ourselves sound more important ) now?

I thought we were talking about:

SubFunk wrote: and i have to say mainly from electronic music artists.

So which is it we are talking about? mastering engineers or electronic music artists?

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:28 pm

maybee i made a little mistake, I wrote:

however in moderate settings (there is no one fits all settings!!!) a compressor and an EQ maybee plus gate, should give you a direction...
to achieve the sound YOU are looking for.

with moderate settings, i mean to start of subtle, rule of thumb, start low and slow... and listen!!! but however there are absolut NO settings that apply absolut, it's always individual depending on the source / context of production, and what you want to achieve...

and if it is a techno kick from hell... happy compressing!

still the artikel is well worth a read, IMHO. it gives alot of understanding, electronic music, punk, or classical... no matter what!!
and it's sooo... funny written

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:38 pm

ILTK wrote:

Quote:

if you think that 'non' electronic music is not using in many cases heavy, coloured compression as an effect, in order to 'shape' a sound, then, well, you are simply totally missinformed or you simply don't understand compression, nor the artikel... (no personal offense intended!)

Where was it exactly I said anything about non electronic music not using compression like this?

Don't put words into my mouth.

Quote:

what i mean if this happens, then you don't know how to use and apply compression propperly, it's not 'the transparency' of a compressor that makes it garbled it's YOU!!

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Quote:
oposite, every good mastering engineer (talking about real Pro mastering) will use utterly 'transparent' compressors to kick the living hell out of your tracks. (ok, combined with other things / treatmeants he will use!)

So we are talking about mastering ( Let's throw in PRO to make ourselves sound more important ) now?

I thought we were talking about:

SubFunk wrote:

and i have to say mainly from electronic music artists.

So which is it we are talking about? mastering engineers or electronic music artists?

hi ILTK, i don't like to 'argue' on that level.
i am not intended to offend anyone... ok?
so no real need to be so nosy nor snatchy...

however, the initial question was, how to make a kick bouncy right??
and that involves the use of a compressor besides other 'units' someone in this thread mentioned that compression is often "overdone" and "abused" i agreed on that!!! (it is my opinion!), but however, the person who asked does not know how to use a compressor, otherwise he would not have asked that kind of question.

so i linked an artikel about the "basic principal" of the device we are talking about! because the compressor is a vital part of creating that particular sound he asked for!!! and it does not matter what kind of music you or ME (or that matter), we create or like in order to understand the use of a compressor and to make a kick bouncy as it has been asked for!!!

that's all... so i am very sorry for any missunderstanding here. i will try to leave all personal things out. sorry, i am aware you know how to use a compressor, so do it and maybee you can share your knowledge... (of HOW to actually use it) with the ones who don't.

that might help all of us.

cheers

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:54 pm

It's cool man, no worries, sometimes things get's taking the wrong way using only text since there is no way to convey body language and such.

Anyway, back on topic, another link with tons of good info:

http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm