ANYONE LIVE NEAR TRAINS?

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:00 pm

Hello everyone

Does anyone live near a train track and have this problem.

Alot of the time when a train goes past (pretty often) my firewire sound card loses it's signal and the sound on ableton cuts out.

I used to have an M-Audio FW Audiophile and that would simply disconnect and come up with a "failed to find FW ASIO" message and you would have to re-boot as they don't allow you to hotwire.

This made live mixing near impossible so i now have a MOTO 828 mkII, it rarley fully disconnects and comes up with the previous message, but the sound does cut alot when trains go past.

I have a PC Laptop and for the in/out options i needed in a sound card Firewire seemed the only way but it is unfortunatley not bus powered (runs of mains) as you cant get bus powered Firewire on PC apparantly.

Anyone had a similar probelm or can advise on something to help, if i get a power supply back up (i assume you can get these) should this stop it?

Thanks guys

Nixon · Post by **Nixon** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:08 pm

Wow, that's nasty man! Maybe you can dampen the impact by isolating the vibrations? might be a hassle but for the try. Good Luck

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:22 pm

Cheers will try but i don't think it's vibrations i think it's a small cut in power

not enough to effect anything really exept the connection between my laptop and soundcard as I believe firewire is quite sensitive

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:40 pm

You must be really close to a train. What kind of train we talking about? I live close enough to hear them.

Casual Beats · Post by **Casual Beats** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:45 pm

yeah, if it is a power interruption, then you should definitely get a UPS.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:43 pm

Maybe give Furman a call and ask if their voltage regulators will help. Their number is 707-763-1010.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:51 pm

Doc Jones wrote:yeah, if it is a power interruption, then you should definitely get a UPS.

I second that. A power conditioner might do the trick, too.

Why would a train cause a power interruption, though?

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:12 pm

that's interesting. Is it an older building? I'm thinking if it's an older building, the vibrations might be causing some connections in the wiring to jiggle. I'd agree that a UPS should help, also dampening the vibrations somehow (get a square of foam rubber, put a piece of plywood on top of that, then your gear on that maybe?).

If you are electrically inclined, you could possibly prove it's a brief power cut by putting the right kind of voltmeter into a wall socket and watching it when a train goes by. If the above theory is true, if the wiring in the place is that hinky, it might be worth considering moving before it burns down.

Riven · Post by **Riven** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:44 pm

It's an old match factory so a massive building can't see how it's vibrations but will give your suggestions a go cheers.

Honestly i reckon i could be making a living from music by now if it wasn't for the unbelievable amount of technical bullshit and other hassle I've had had.

Seriously everytime I have a problem and post on here not one other person has ever encountered it!

scottorlans · Post by **scottorlans** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:15 pm

I agree a UPS should do the trick... BUT you should look for one with a TRUE SINE wave as opposed to a "stepped approximation." This only refers to while it is on battery power, but for that breif instance a stepped power wave could cause the same problem. Although stepped ones are way cheaper, so maybe try this first. This parameter is not advertised, so you'll have to look in the technical product details to find out if it puts out a true sine...

I use the APC Smart-UPS 1500VA part number SUA1500

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:25 pm

No, but when the goods train rolls past (fortunately only twice a day), my TFT starts shaking. Good knows what it's doing to the flat's foundations.

martin808 · Post by **martin808** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 5:40 pm

i have 2 busy train lines either side of my house that are very close.
The small electric passenger trains are near silent but about 4 times a day a big diesel coal train flies past the window and the whole building rocks back and forward so much so that the piano in my living room starts clanging. The building is covered in cracks from movement but as the sandstone walls are about 2 feet thick and the building has been standing since 1900 I dont think its ready for crumbling yet...i hope!

anyway, i don't get any interference, except from the tv which goes a bit crackly when they go past.

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:59 pm

This time "get a Mac" would really be the best solution.
1. the powered FW
2. you dont have to reboot Live to get back audio and midi
FW seems to be a bit sensitive. My experience is probably the worst anyone could have. Caught me onstage, unprepared since it was my first "M powered" performance. I rebooted the XP, which wasnt really necessary as I know now, just Live would be enough. The real bad part is that after taking early break, for rebooting resetting it happened second time but worse, in the middle of my solo so I almost got heartattack.
It took few weeks for me and M audio to find out the problem was power supply. The new fancy M audios universal 120/220 V units are too weak, oversensitive to any fluctuations, they sent me a bit bigger one and it works since months without problems.
The stage case was due to lights changes, however M audio, myself and everyone else looked for the source of the problem in all wrong places, till I accidently plugged in my Nokias charger.
So it is not just train but any kind of spike voltage fluctuation that triggers it.
1. Get better, more stable PSU
2. Furman is definitely good idea anyway
or.....get a Mac
P.S.
I did some tests to see how stable it is . It did dissconect only when I plugged out a huge 220<>120 convertor - I used it for Korg MX. Of course suddenly the monstrous Voltage sucker wasnt there so that jump was enough to deactivate audio. It was just testing , why a hell would I do it in real life? Still even this was fixed- by simple 5 Euro box with some simple protective circuit that a friendly geek gave me ( he uses these for all his gadgets)
I dont think it is M audio specific problem, it was just worse due to that "traveller" PSU.

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:37 pm

rikhyray wrote:This time "get a Mac" would really be the best solution.
1. the powered FW
2. you dont have to reboot Live to get back audio and midi
FW seems to be a bit sensitive. My experience is probably the worst anyone could have. Caught me onstage, unprepared since it was my first "M powered" performance. I rebooted the XP, which wasnt really necessary as I know now, just Live would be enough. The real bad part is that after taking early break, for rebooting resetting it happened second time but worse, in the middle of my solo so I almost got heartattack.
It took few weeks for me and M audio to find out the problem was power supply. The new fancy M audios universal 120/220 V units are too weak, oversensitive to any fluctuations, they sent me a bit bigger one and it works since months without problems.
The stage case was due to lights changes, however M audio, myself and everyone else looked for the source of the problem in all wrong places, till I accidently plugged in my Nokias charger.
So it is not just train but any kind of spike voltage fluctuation that triggers it.
1. Get better, more stable PSU
2. Furman is definitely good idea anyway
or.....get a Mac
P.S.
I did some tests to see how stable it is . It did dissconect only when I plugged out a huge 220<>120 convertor - I used it for Korg MX. Of course suddenly the monstrous Voltage sucker wasnt there so that jump was enough to deactivate audio. It was just testing , why a hell would I do it in real life? Still even this was fixed- by simple 5 Euro box with some simple protective circuit that a friendly geek gave me ( he uses these for all his gadgets)
I dont think it is M audio specific problem, it was just worse due to that "traveller" PSU.

no get a UPS is the best solution, not a whole new computer

Actually I've had and heard of more problems hot pluggin FW on macs BECAUSE it's powered

And I hot plug my M-Audio FW410 on my PC all the time - mainly because as you say the 4 pin FW sucks - but a PCMCIA FW adapter solves that

rikhyray · Post by **rikhyray** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:36 pm

forge wrote:
no get a UPS is the best solution, not a whole new computer

Actually I've had and heard of more problems hot pluggin FW on macs BECAUSE it's powered

And I hot plug my M-Audio FW410 on my PC all the time - mainly because as you say the 4 pin FW sucks - but a PCMCIA FW adapter solves that

UPS is a HUGE solution! We have to use them in India but in no "power cuts" countries ?
I use 4 pin without problems, since vaio uses TI chip. That was my and M audios "wrong track" we were checking everything else,FW card, FW cables , I reformated XP 3 times etc, etc. It is just power problem, 100%.
That no hotpluging is indeed a myth, I too do it all the time without problems , just that on pc once you loose midi, have to restart Live, there is no way to rescan and AFAIK it is not so on Mac.
Are you destroying another Mac myth ? Try to beat this one.
"Zero latency "
Frankfurt`s No1 pro audio shop. I was to choose Ozonic or Xstation, since I wanted to know more exactly about latency they sent me to the expert, I believed he was the nicest person there, knew him since years but it all changed the moment he learnt that i moved to PC, my excuses "live", ableton, performance test...... didnt help, he spoke clearly " every real musician who ever gets on stage uses Mac", "you have problems because of PC ! "( as i mentioned it was a PSU problem and electricity is crossplatform). and the best "with Mac you will have 0 latency" Yes he said so ZERO!
He does not even greet me anymore since then. I guess he might be MacKaida member, myself in his eyes like Hamas member converting to Judaism