OT: How much is too much for a TB 303?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
FaX-01
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:58 am

Post by FaX-01 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 5:53 am

leisuremuffin wrote:The software vs. hardware argument sucks, because people on either side will never give. However, i gotta say that a lot of the people who say software sounds as good probably haven't used much real analog gear.

.lm.

I totally disagree.
I have USED tonnes of hardware since 87 too around 2 years ago.
Back then I had mainly analogs because they where cheap second hand and far more affordable than there digital counterparts at the time.
Some software does indeed sound as good as hardware.
Granted NOT all does.
However the Korg Wavestation VSTi sounds damn good and pretty much like the original.
Most of the proported analog emu's don't come close bar a handful.
The IMPOscar springs to mind as pretty close to the original.
That said I have a very RESTRICTED number of Reaktor ENsembles I use failthdully in R5 and they easily stand up to anything in hardware and have a meat and body to the sound alot of software lacks.
A PC/Mac will sound as good as any hardware sampler out there by in large also.
I still feel personally that "analog" as a sound source is grossly over rated and that's been my opinion for years.
Infact I've been more or less unashamedly DIGITAL in hardware synth choice since the early to mid 90's.
Bar using tools like the Microwave , MicoQ and Pulse + Emax samplers with analog filters and s few Prophet 2002's.
For example the Kawai K4 has adigital resonant filter that sound like nothing else out there and the Digital resonant filters in an Sy77 sound damn fine also.
Each too their own IMHO.
That said something like an FM7 and a decent analog filter on ouput will do the trick for pads , leads and basses in many a situation.
I've never been into the it's gotta sound phat brigade (whatever phat is ..still don't know to this day).
I like clean , sparse , detailed mixes with lots of detail.
I have owned Matrix 6's / CS60's an Expander / CS15 / 303 / 606 /727 old Akai S900 and 950's you name it.
I have only ever viewed any unit as a tool that is utilised as a means to an end.
If the end results are good I don't care if it's digital , analog , vector ,wavesequenced , wavetable , rompler , additive , sampled or whatever.
$1000 + for a TB is still insane money in my book for what it does.
Then again I wouldn't pay that sort of money for Waldorf Pulse's a DX7 or SQ80 , D50 older JV80 or JD900 etc either.
Couple of hundred less and I'd snag a Kawai K5000's or DX7IIFDe for example but i don't see that value or worth in a TB303 when an Electribe EA1 MkII + Frostwave filter would yield similar results in a mix for a lot less.
That's just me though.
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

leisuremuffin
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Location: New Jersey

Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:07 am

I dunno.

yeah, the korg plugs sound pretty good. And they also have the right idea with having a dedicated controller.


reading just the part of my post that you quote makes me sound kinda like an eliteist asshole, so i just want to make sure everybody understands me here...

I do think that software synths can either be made to sound good by processing later. And i do think that they will probably some day be much better at emulating analog synths. But i just don't think that you can get the same kinda stuff (at least right now) out of software that you can with certain kinds of hardware, in particular, true analog synths. I also think that a big part of it is meaningfull control and playability. My SH-101 is not a particularly great sounding analog synth, but it does have dedicated and *smooth* controls for all of the parameters clearly labeled and laid out it a way that actually suits their funtion. This makes it a monster for expressive performances... and makes it easy to program. Naw'mean?


.lm.
TimeableFloat ???S?e?n?d?I?n?f?o

FaX-01
Posts: 1483
Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:58 am

Post by FaX-01 » Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:41 am

leisuremuffin wrote:I dunno.

yeah, the korg plugs sound pretty good. And they also have the right idea with having a dedicated controller.


reading just the part of my post that you quote makes me sound kinda like an eliteist asshole, so i just want to make sure everybody understands me here...

I do think that software synths can either be made to sound good by processing later. And i do think that they will probably some day be much better at emulating analog synths. But i just don't think that you can get the same kinda stuff (at least right now) out of software that you can with certain kinds of hardware, in particular, true analog synths. I also think that a big part of it is meaningfull control and playability. My SH-101 is not a particularly great sounding analog synth, but it does have dedicated and *smooth* controls for all of the parameters clearly labeled and laid out it a way that actually suits their funtion. This makes it a monster for expressive performances... and makes it easy to program. Naw'mean?


.lm.
Just to let you know I didn't percieve your post in an "elitist asshole" comment.
I agree the immediacy of interface is hard too beat and I still maintain Reaktor is the ONLY modelling synth particularly for subtractive VA stuff that has the kind of body and meat you'd associate with analog.
Tassman sounds rather lovely too but is far too CPU intensive even on basic analog emu patches.
I am not overly impressed with a lot of the so called pro-end vst analog emu's myself.
And I understand what you mean.
The Pro One was my favourite bass / lead synth for many years for similar reasons and I'm still quite a fan of the Sequential SixTrak and MC-202 also.
I am actually going to be purchasing a Mo6 this year to get a better hardware/software balance in my studio.

I'll be using Reason 3 for Combi patches / Maelstrom and NNXT (sampling duties).
Reaktor for granular and basic VA + groovebox duties.
Mo6 for bread and butter rompler / arp and sequencing duties and Live for all my DAW recording needs.
Far cheaper than a new PC and will give me a better balanced workflow overall IMHO.
I just find the over inflated analog costs second hand quite unjustifiable myself that's all.
That said I definately see where you're coming from.
My aren't the wings of butterflies beautiful and do they not make wonderful perturbations.....

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