questions from a disgruntled Logic user!

[tdolby]

Hey Live users,

Greetings an respect to y'all from Logic land. I know very little about Live, but please help me out, and maybe you'll recruit one more defector over to your side

I play a live one-man-show with a Mac G5 Dual 2Ghz. Right now I load multiple Logic songs before the set, and switch between them using a MIDI button on my controller. The songs have just a few audio tracks, but lots of MIDI/softsynth tracks with FX. On top of this I play several keyboard controllers and a TriggerFinger, sing, and vocode. Several songs start in a 'loopstation'-type vein, ie I record in part by part in loop record.

Would switching to Live solve any of the headaches Logic is causing me?:

1. The Logic app has a fixed memory limit that is way less than my physical RAM (8Gb). So once the sum of the songs I've loaded exceeds this, it starts 'stealing' resources from the oldest song.... eg a softsynth goes silent without warning. Is the same true for Live? What's the behavior if/when you hit its memory limits? [This is NOT a CPU issue.]

2. When you leave a softsynth alone in Logic for more than say a minute, it 'goes to sleep'.... so the next note you play, there will be a delay of maybe 30 milliseconds before it 'wakes up'--just long enough to make you sound like you played out of time Does Live do this as well? or is it a MacOS/CoreAudio problem?

3. When Logic is in what it calls Cycle Record mode, it tends to choke on notes that are on or near the loop point. So the first time it plays back a bar you just recorded, it may screw up or cut short the 16th passing note right before the loop. On the 2nd pass it may fix this. Does Live do a clean job with MIDI recording and looping?

These are my biggest issues. If Live had an answer for all three, I would take the time to learn Live and make the switch. There are other areas where I know Live, or Logic, has the edge... for example, in Logic obviously there's far less control over loop lengths, 'firing' procedures etc. But Logic is ultimately more flexible and studio-like for a linear oldtimer like myself. All advice greatly appreciated!

Thomas Dolby

(PS I am NOT a travel agent and was never in the Housemartins

[radeon]

Are you the Thomas Dolby? I if it is you I loved your music so you were big inspirations to me

I take my times and reply your post but be known my English is bad but I try my best and so maybe other forum user help to.

My big problems with Live 5 is problems cpu. I uses Logic a at some places and it is very greater with track countings and virtuals plugs instruments and with Live your not to havieng the same amount of track and virtual instruments so I imaginings one quarter what logic do on same computer so I must tells you this to you first.

to answer questions direct so I try but I hoping someone else help to answer because It is maybe not so certain from me

I play a live one-man-show with a Mac G5 Dual 2Ghz. Right now I load multiple Logic songs before the set, and switch between them using a MIDI button on my controller. The songs have just a few audio tracks, but lots of MIDI/softsynth tracks with FX. On top of this I play several keyboard controllers and a TriggerFinger, sing, and vocode. Several songs start in a 'loopstation'-type vein, ie I record in part by part in loop record.

Would switching to Live solve any of the headaches Logic is causing me?:

Yes and maybe no but you cant do it good with live virtual instrument because you run out of cpu This is BIGGEST problems I have with Live in the studio only. I maybe can run 4 virtual and 12-16 audio track on dual G5 2ghz on Logic you knows what it can do on same cpu. I hope when live six coming it will be better for cpu useing.

1. The Logic app has a fixed memory limit that is way less than my physical RAM (8Gb). So once the sum of the songs I've loaded exceeds this, it starts 'stealing' resources from the oldest song.... eg a softsynth goes silent without warning. Is the same true for Live? What's the behavior if/when you hit its memory limits? [This is NOT a CPU issue.]

I dont thinking live has this problem and all your songs for live would be on same session page you wont needings to load in to live other songs but you will have to using session view becasue arrngement view is no good for this live system.

2. When you leave a softsynth alone in Logic for more than say a minute, it 'goes to sleep'.... so the next note you play, there will be a delay of maybe 30 milliseconds before it 'wakes up'--just long enough to make you sound like you played out of time Does Live do this as well? or is it a MacOS/CoreAudio problem?

not with live but I can say sometimes strange thinks happen when I leave live alone and come back and try to play but it is bottleneck so I have to load up my song again but I think if you keep playing the set it wotkings good. So this is no a problem but the more virtual instrument and audio live delay gets more with me and it become difficult to play in time. Live is my only softwares i have latency problem.

3. When Logic is in what it calls Cycle Record mode, it tends to choke on notes that are on or near the loop point. So the first time it plays back a bar you just recorded, it may screw up or cut short the 16th passing note right before the loop. On the 2nd pass it may fix this. Does Live do a clean job with MIDI recording and looping?

no choking with live so it is good but only in session view In arranegemnt view to record midi lopp it working strange but it is difficult for me explainings this Sometimes but it is the situation if I have some virtual instruments and cpu is heavy when record midi loop the notes dont plays where I record the notes so I have to move with mouse so if you want to improvisational live on stage and record midi I thinking you will have the problems.

SO I sorry to say that I thinkings you might get problems to use live on stage with so many virtual instruments whcih is frustrate becasue this is what is designings for. Most peoples use only audio so little problems there biut I understandings why peoples also want to use virtual instruments live for improvisations.
I thinking other will writings to give help but I say be careful becasue some peopels deny live has cpu problems and the way to see this is not true is to play try the demo and you will see. It is not I wanting to make you not use live I only tell truths.

Live is design for what you want and is the best softwares but abletons need to code the softwares better.
hope i helps you

[NationalSandwic]

i've considered using logic live before...but i have a PC and obviously haven't been able to upgrade beyond 5.5.

i certainly don't know if logic's a good way to go anyway.... the most impressive thing to me about Live how solid it is under pressure... i've got a very average PC (amd 64bit 2800+; not even a gig of ram; entry level pro audio interface) and i'm running many tracks, bringing audio in, recording it, controlling effects, even splicing up audio live, and it's done well (if you aren't careful about manging background processes & resource usage, and XP has tons, then you can run into problems...but they're all fixable).

to answer your questions to my knowledge:
I've never had synths go silent, or dormant in Live... Latency is an issue with any piece of software and hardware, and Live needs you to work with your audio interface to optimise your system.

I don't record or loop MIDI, so i don't know if live does that...but i'd be really surprised if it does... maybe your problem in Logic is that the software isn't really designed for that sort of use?

I'd seriously recommend getting Live. not as a replacement for logic (which is really a studio sequencer), but as a performance and improv tool.
however, if you've been using Logics built-in VSTs, then you can't transport those over to Live... well, you can't from Logic 5.5, and i assume Apple's maintaining that plug-in exclusivity... Would be GREAT to get the exs24 to work in Live, but I can't seem to do it

best
a

[SubFunk]

logic can take advantage of 4gb in the current state. but i guess this will be adressed soon... http://www.logicprohelp.com

the softsynths go to sleep and want play the first note after not using it for aboute a minute??? there is something wrong with your setup / logic version.

same with the choking issue during cycling mode, all sweet here.

Live is great, but can't replace Logic (in my opinion) for it's sheer power for production and midi capabilities...

use both and you get the best from both worlds...

[Machinesworking]

1. The Logic app has a fixed memory limit that is way less than my physical RAM (8Gb). So once the sum of the songs I've loaded exceeds this, it starts 'stealing' resources from the oldest song.... eg a softsynth goes silent without warning. Is the same true for Live? What's the behavior if/when you hit its memory limits? [This is NOT a CPU issue.]

You won't run into this simply because Live doesn't allow you to open up more than one "set" at a time. The good thing is that Live takes from 2 to 10 seconds to load a new song/set. Live streams as much audio as it can, so RAM use is light. Live works on a DJ set principal in that you can load multiple songs into the Session View as clips, and fire them off etc. Only hassle with this is it's not that elegant when it comes to the soft synths and FX you're using to play live with, in that you must manually turn off each set of FX and soft synths, and not all CPU resources are returned to Live when a synth is in standby. So most of the time I just load new songs/sets, and deal with the silence, or fill it with something from a CD etc.

2. When you leave a softsynth alone in Logic for more than say a minute, it 'goes to sleep'.... so the next note you play, there will be a delay of maybe 30 milliseconds before it 'wakes up'--just long enough to make you sound like you played out of time Does Live do this as well? or is it a MacOS/CoreAudio problem?

It could be a macOS problem, but unfortunately Live exhibits this behavior as well, not for the same reasons Logic does probably, and on the PC/windows version as well.
You're probably pushing Logic to it's limits with all the open songs. Logic is set up to be a CPU light workstation for the studio, but live it isn't set up for well IMO, I own logic as well as Live, and never use Logic live. it was less than two years ago that Logic couldn't address more than one soft synth with more than one controller without a work around that introduced latency.
Live's big advantage is that it scans all tracks-FX-instruments-etc. all the time for possible changes. The disadvantage of this is it's a CPU PiG compared to Logic, at around 60% of the CPU resources Logic has on the same machine. Because of this it's a good idea to efficiently allocate resources in Live, otherwise you can get audio dropouts, and my favorite weirdness was at near 100% once, everything slowed down...

3. When Logic is in what it calls Cycle Record mode, it tends to choke on notes that are on or near the loop point. So the first time it plays back a bar you just recorded, it may screw up or cut short the 16th passing note right before the loop. On the 2nd pass it may fix this. Does Live do a clean job with MIDI recording and looping?

Yes, Live is better for this IMO. That's a known bug in Logic, but I seem to recall it being addressed recently? Maybe not...dunno?

But Logic is ultimately more flexible and studio-like for a linear oldtimer like myself. All advice greatly appreciated!

Yeah, to me anyway, Logic is easier to work with when it comes to polishing up arrangements, and MIDI editing, and workflow in general. I'm moving towards basic arranging in Logic, and importing audio clips into Live for final polish and performance, though I really wish there was a way to open multiple Live sets and switch between them, there are workarounds, and there is a distinct advantage to owning both Logic and Live. Hell, in the next few months i'll be renewing my Digital Performer License as well.

[radeon]

Wheres are you Mr Dolby I hopings you come back to say hello. I check that is you and you do use Logic so it must be the Thomas Dolby who is genius
It is to be so cool if you post more thinks on here this forum and it is the situations that peoples here dont know you come to post or maybes not to know who you are?

hope for to see you soon

[Peter Doubt]

Logic in the studio, Live onstage (hence the name "Live")....Ive never had perfromance issues with Live onstage, and even use Reason rewired thru Live onstage with no probs at all. All I have is a 700mhz G3 iBook, altough I keep the hard drive as free as possible.