Is there a 'God'?

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:27 am

ethios4 wrote:I feel much the same about christianity...it irks me when I see/hear misinformation out there about it. In the case of christianity, the problem of misinformation applies heavily to christians. IMHO, most christians operate under a misunderstanding/misinformation of what it means to be a christian, ie, person who lives by faith in Christ. This christian misunderstanding is a big problem today, and leads to all sorts of violent radical behavior (Bush?).

I try to be less 'judgemental' about it. I'll usually say (when in the right places!) that Islam "does not exist". The Qur'an exists, the Sunnah exists, a number of traditions, young and old, for interpreting and applying the sources exist and they're all dependent on extra-Islamic sources or the interpretations of a number of persons that existed at specific points in time in specific place on Earth. And they all have dogma that can't be questioned which are dependent upon this interpretations that are conditioned by coming to be at a certain point in time in a specific place on Earth.
The traditions are real, they all claim to be Islamic even though they may not agree on more than two articles of faith. This is what makes talking about 'Islam' so damn difficult, especially these days. The same is true for Christianity, as far as I understand, there's about a million different sects, some of which seem to be completely unrelated. To me, this makes the idea of one capital-C Christianity (and trying to define it) entirely political in nature.

-Paws

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:44 am

noisetonepause wrote:
ethios4 wrote:I feel much the same about christianity...it irks me when I see/hear misinformation out there about it. In the case of christianity, the problem of misinformation applies heavily to christians. IMHO, most christians operate under a misunderstanding/misinformation of what it means to be a christian, ie, person who lives by faith in Christ. This christian misunderstanding is a big problem today, and leads to all sorts of violent radical behavior (Bush?).
I try to be less 'judgemental' about it. I'll usually say (when in the right places!) that Islam "does not exist". The Qur'an exists, the Sunnah exists, a number of traditions, young and old, for interpreting and applying the sources exist and they're all dependent on extra-Islamic sources or the interpretations of a number of persons that existed at specific points in time in specific place on Earth. And they all have dogma that can't be questioned which are dependent upon this interpretations that are conditioned by coming to be at a certain point in time in a specific place on Earth.
The traditions are real, they all claim to be Islamic even though they may not agree on more than two articles of faith. This is what makes talking about 'Islam' so damn difficult, especially these days. The same is true for Christianity, as far as I understand, there's about a million different sects, some of which seem to be completely unrelated. To me, this makes the idea of one capital-C Christianity (and trying to define it) entirely political in nature.

-Paws

Good point.
The thing most people forget is that most of these religions started around the corner from eachother.
Jews, Muslims and Christians all have one thing in common. Jerusalem....
I'm not a religious expert. But i see this just like Coca Cola, Pepsi and Virgin...
Eventually one product will catch on.

It's kinda like Roman mythology which just got ripped of classic Greek mythology.
Religion....

Classic mythology rocks though. It makes much more sense that gods are sadistic bastards instead of one being of love...

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:07 am

deckme(N)tal wrote:is DOG spelled bckwards!

yes it's true

Q:what do you get if you cross a dyslexic agnostic with an insomniac?

A:Someone who lays awake at night wondering if there really is a Dog

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:19 am

Pitch Black wrote:
nolus wrote: If there is a God or (gods) in the sense of all powerfull supernatural beings, or creators of the universe then I for one certainly havn't seen any evidence of it.
Well, while I'm quoting SF authors, I like what Arthur C Clarke has to say:

"Either we are alone in the universe, or we aren't... The implications of either are staggering."

peace love and mung beans, whatever your cosmology

dead right eh!

man this whole question really is the big HeadFuck - in fact that's what God should be referred to from now on - the big headfuck!

More and more of late I've been adopting the natural selection/evolution ideas - just seeing too much evidence of it and too many things against the idea of creationism, then just when I think I'm convinced something makes me think "how the fuck could that happen if there is not some greater intelligence behind things"

if you want to really open your mind to this universe, watch David Attenborough's latest series "life in the undergrowth" about insects - it is absolutely mind blowing to think of how much intelligence these tiny tiny beings have - a butterfly that secretes the same pheremone as ants so it's larvae will be raised by the ants as their own in the safety of it's nest, then a wasp that can somehow find that one ants nest in a whole field and sneak in, gas the ants with a different pheremone that makes them turn on each other so it can go down, find the butterfly larvae and inject it's own eggs into it so the ants will then look after IT'S larvae

How the hell can things that small have enough intelligence to do thigs like that??

One thing I'm certain of though is if there is a divine intelligence, it certainly doesnt have the shape these simplistic monotheistic religions see it as, there are just too many holes in all of them and things left unexplained.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:23 am

I'M GOD!!

(and so are you

)

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:23 am

and so is everything

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:23 am

and so is nothing

charles-l · Post by **charles-l** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:20 pm

I didn't want to enter this debate and explicitly give my view but god using logical reasoning doesn't exist. To those who beleive in this entity and feel offend sorry, but if you really what to prove your beliefs you need to try and prove them wrong. If you don't open your mind to over opinions and to empirical findings then you'll never know that you are right or wrong.

By god I mean

- A single entity
- Creator of all in existence or catalyst to this
- An entity beyond the constrains of the laws of nature/physic (i.e. supernatural)
- Creator of morality and is perfectly benevolent
- Entity that is omnipresent (existed before the creation of the universe)
- God is omniscient, omnipotent and creates with purpose

"Remember, atheism is not a worldview itself. Atheism is defined by the view it does not have theism." - so don't think that athiests believe the same thing as each other or have developed their views in the same way.

DKushner · Post by **DKushner** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:31 pm

Well now that thats all sorted out, clearly the god of electronic music is BT, Dillinja or Derreck Carter. What we need to do know is place BT Dillinja and Dereck Carter in a triplethreat TLC to crown the undistputed World Heavyweight god of electronic music. It would be kind of like facing off Jesus vs Allah vs Adonai only less armageddon, tidal waves, plagues, lightening bolts, and earthquakes, and instead more grooving.

nolus · Post by **nolus** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:54 pm

charles-l wrote:...
here is a really interesting link ...

Where?

Pitch Black wrote: Well, while I'm quoting SF authors, I like what Arthur C Clarke has to say:

"Either we are alone in the universe, or we aren't... The implications of either are staggering."

totaly agree with that.

forge wrote: More and more of late I've been adopting the natural selection/evolution ideas - just seeing too much evidence of it and too many things against the idea of creationism, then just when I think I'm convinced something makes me think "how the fuck could that happen if there is not some greater intelligence behind things"

if you want to really open your mind to this universe, watch David Attenborough's latest series "life in the undergrowth" about insects - it is absolutely mind blowing to think of how much intelligence these tiny tiny beings have - a butterfly that secretes the same pheremone as ants so it's larvae will be raised by the ants as their own in the safety of it's nest, then a wasp that can somehow find that one ants nest in a whole field and sneak in, gas the ants with a different pheremone that makes them turn on each other so it can go down, find the butterfly larvae and inject it's own eggs into it so the ants will then look after IT'S larvae

How the hell can things that small have enough intelligence to do thigs like that??

One thing I'm certain of though is if there is a divine intelligence, it certainly doesnt have the shape these simplistic monotheistic religions see it as, there are just too many holes in all of them and things left unexplained.

It's far too easy in the midst of day to day life to completely lose sight of just how amazing and inexplicable life, concius thought, and the whole universe in general. actually are.

check out Bee Orchids., it will blow your mind.

it's all quite humblling really. we are all incredibly lucky just to be alive and be able to experience the whole thing and to be able to comunicate that experience to others.

these mysteries are very ancient and deep. maybe it's beyond our abilities to ever penetrate them.

an atheist is someone who admits to not knowing the answers. The trouble with religions is that they pretend to have all the answers, but they are misguided imo.

on a ligher note I'd also like to nominate Tangerean Dream and Can for godship.

charles-l · Post by **charles-l** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:12 pm

opps sorry here is the link

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcrai ... ard00.html

follow this then make up your mind, and be critical about the decision you make and try to prove it wrong, then if you still hold that view then well done, but even then don't be dogmatic and find more info to prove and disprove yourself.

And for theists of there, atheists are not a group of people - they have one thing in common, they reject the existence of god. How and why they come to this decision is unique to the individual. So don't say all atheists are _____, when very different routes to rejection of belief are decided upon.

Charles-l

By the way if you say that athiests are stupid or ignorant etc in the _____ part, then I'm positive I'll prove you wrong.

glu · Post by **glu** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:50 pm

im a pantheist, kinda...

DKushner · Post by **DKushner** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:12 am

an atheist is someone who admits to not knowing the answers.

100% incorrect. Agnosticism is someone who admits that they don't know. Athiest very specifically believe they know that there is no god, and who subscribe to the belief of no higher power.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:56 am

I screwed this one up, sorry........go away.......nothing to see here.......

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:57 am

mike holiday wrote:I'M GOD!!

(and so are you )

Hey, I thought it was me!!!