Stylus vs guru?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
GlennO
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Post by GlennO » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:10 pm

We're not aware of any bugs in Stylus RMX. But, if you know of one, please report it by sending a description of the problem to support@spectrasonics. Thanks.

As for why RMX is different than other loop players, the simple answer is: we put a lot of work into it :-). Glad you like it

Regarding cpu usage of the reverb, there are 2 reverbs included with RMX: a simple one which is light on the cpu, and a sophisticated one which uses more cpu. As with all reverbs, there is a tradeoff between audio quality with cpu usage.

Glenn Olander
Spectrasonics

acileli
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Post by acileli » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:23 pm

GlennO wrote: Regarding cpu usage of the reverb, there are 2 reverbs included with RMX: a simple one which is light on the cpu, and a sophisticated one which uses more cpu. As with all reverbs, there is a tradeoff between audio quality with cpu usage.
Hi Glenn, great to see your presence here on the Live forum. I'm a big fan of RMX, and also really like the way it integrates into my workflow with Live.

By the way, doesn't RMX come with 3 different reverbs? You forgot about the spring verb, much different character from EZ verb and Pro verb :)

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:32 pm

ill def drop a line to you guys when i get a free moment.

in the meantime i wanted to chime in with acileli and say its great to see you on here as well!
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djadonis206
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Post by djadonis206 » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:48 pm

hmmm - so stylus RMX can import rex files

can you import your own loops and then replace different parts of the loop with your own drums?

I try not to use pre-made (or factory) loops and drums

most if not all my loops are samples from vinyl

can you do that with RMX?

curious
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acileli
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Post by acileli » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:11 pm

djadonis206 wrote:hmmm - so stylus RMX can import rex files

can you import your own loops and then replace different parts of the loop with your own drums?

I try not to use pre-made (or factory) loops and drums

most if not all my loops are samples from vinyl

can you do that with RMX?

curious
Sure, RMX lets you import your own loops (as long as they're rex2 format) and than you can mangle them any which way. Besides loops, RMX comes with a huge assortment of one-shots and various other bits you can use to add flavor to your own loops.

Shit man, imho the FX and choas sections of RMX more than justify the cost--very high quality and easy to use to boot. All the loops that come with the plugin--what is it it? 4 gig worth?--are just icing.

It's the best value in VST instruments with the possible exception of Energy XT.

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:07 pm

I just want to add something that no one mentioned so far - that you can also use RMX as a MIDI drum sampler to play ordinary MIDI sequences. I've found it very good for that appliciations because of the Chaos (random) function. You can set how much each drum sound will vary by random in pitch or stutter effect or whatever.

I recorded my buddy playing different exotic hand drums and created my own RMX library out of that. It's not very fast, you will have to open the loops first in ReCycle and then save them as REX files before RMX can import them.

If someone wants to listen to RMX I have some pieces posted at http://www.looproom.com/aol/. All drums except on song no 11 were produced with RMX (although a lot was played by a percussionist first before I RMX-ifyed his chops). The broken beats of song 5 came about with PSP Nitro + Pluggo.

GURU also has great effects, but they are so different that it just doesn't make sense to compare them. When you buy one of them you will find that you also need the other ;-)
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

dbolt
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Post by dbolt » Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:19 am

Per Boysen wrote:
I just want to add something that no one mentioned so far - that you can also use RMX as a MIDI drum sampler to play ordinary MIDI sequences. I've found it very good for that appliciations because of the Chaos (random) function. You can set how much each drum sound will vary by random in pitch or stutter effect or whatever.

I also wanted to add the the Groove Menu is very cool and you can choose the quatinization one beat 1/16 or immediate and this makes for really fun improving and coming up with either layered loops or one shot sampled beats. So RMX is more than a program full of premade loops you can really get deep with it. Plus the video tutorial are fun to watch its good to have.

MY .02


later
Dustin

solar28
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Post by solar28 » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:18 am

I'll throw mine in the ring for Stylus RMX. This goes far/far beyond loop playing.

1) Load any loop/groove (or import recycle file). Each "Slice" is auto-mapped across the keyboard so you can "play" the loop using the sounds with a completely different groove. A set of keys will contain all the bass hits, snares, etc. Essentially the groove becomes a drum kit. Will also work with Trigger Finger. I know that phatmatik does this and guru, but important not to forget that stylus does this.

2) Take a loop, and select ANY sound (or sub group of sounds), and apply effects INDEPENDENTLY to that subgroup. Want an echo on each quarter note? There instantaneously -- just slap the effect on down beats. What about the "and" of beats 1 and 3? There.

Take either of the above and multiply it by 8! Eight separate grooves can be set up and effected this way.

3) Or -- switch to a different mode, and now you can start/stop grooves either in time with the beat or instantly. I.E. if you have eight loops going, they are all automatically assigned a key. In this way you can mix and match the loops to make a combo groove out of all of them (i.e. loop 1 for 1 beat, then loop 2/3 combined for the next beat, then loops 1,7,8 for the next measure, etc you get the idea)

4) any groove can be dragged as a midi file into the host. There, you can easily "drop out" any element, just like editing rex files. Get rid of snares, etc.

5) as mentioned before many of the elements are ("hits") are already available as separate samples/one shots. So you can just choose among these to build a custom kit and play a beat from scratch.

Anyway, just my, I guess, 75 cents or so.

BTW The phatmatik pro IS killer -- however it is no longer being developed for windows. Rumor has it that there are some VERY NASTY P4 denormalization bugs that are still a problem (if you run a p4). The thing I like about this -- is that you can work with ANY wave file.

IF stylus rmx were to "open up a bit" and allow importing of wav files, to me it would be unbeatable.

Per Boysen
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Post by Per Boysen » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:04 am

solar28 wrote:IF stylus rmx were to "open up a bit" and allow importing of wav files, to me it would be unbeatable.
Speaking about that I just want to ad that "being open" is what GURU is about. You can use it as pHATmatic Pro to slice up drum beats. But it's really cool to slice up any recorded noise and let GURU automatically analyze and map audio slices where they sonically fit best; kick drum similar sound, hihat similar sound etc. This means whatever source audio used for auto-slicing will make sense if auto sliced and driven by MIDI drum parts (or the built-in step sequencer).

Another great GURU feature is that many of the engines, (called "parts" in the *RMX) except for the first one, will let you apply tempo division to the sequencers driving those engines. These are techniques used by many electronic musicians and I guess it comes originally from MAX patches (autechre is one example). Of course GURU is not as advanced as MAX or Numerology in this department, but it's cool to know that the features are there if you need them one day.
Greetings from Sweden

Per Boysen
http://www.perboysen.com

polyslax
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Post by polyslax » Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:52 am

I'll echo some of the good points made above on what RMX is capable of...

-fx are very good.
-edit groups are sick, use with mute/solo and fx for craziness.
-rex import, amazing fun, I've done 500 or so of my own loops and don't forget folks, it doesn't have to be drums! most of mine are pitched material.
-use it as a drum machine dammit! kills me when people call it just a loop player, you CAN play the 10,000+ single hits!
-groove elements, total mix and match, again you're not stuck with the preset loops.
-chaos, done right!
-even just the pitch and filter variations you can get on the edit page can alter things dramatically.
-TIP: another way I like to generate chaos is to drag n drop the midi file for a loop into Live and then use that midi file to play another rmx loop, sometimes it sux, often it's great, especially layered with the proper loop.
-not saying you necessarily want to use rmx exclusively (I use it with µTonic, Battery, Kontakt and RMIV) but it's a very creative tool.
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der_gary
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Post by der_gary » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:58 pm

... I have to echo all the pros about RMX as I've found it to be inarguably among "the best" thought out/implemented instruments (software, OR hardware) in my tool-box. It is absolutely brillient! The MIDI control is second to none, and now that there is a 'recall' function within the browser (which libraries you've opened) my main niggle has been resolved. Though I still, can only play slices in 'slice-mode' in the 1st 'part', and no other (for reasons unknown - as I keep forgeting to inquire about it)

I have made several GIGs worth of REX files to load into it, and not just with ReCycle (REX2) but with Beatcreator (about half the price of ReCycle) which makes REX1 (mono) files. A great many of these are non-percussive instruments - vocals/horns/guitar/keyboards, etc. RMX can do amazing things with them.

I don't find the CPU load to be a 'problem'. On my AMD-64 3200+ (skt 754) with 2GBs RAM/Raptor drives - RMX is a 2% load empty, and each 'part' adds no more than 1%. The effects are 1% or less as well except the "pro-reverb" which typically adds 3%, and the biggest "plex" (delay) which adds 5-7% (per instance).

GURU is an excellent tool as well, but a different tool.

phatMATic pro is still available for Windows - useful and fun, and was pretty much a precursor to 'Intakt' - and in some ways, I think better.

best.

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:17 pm

solar28 wrote:Each "Slice" is auto-mapped across the keyboard so you can "play" the loop using the sounds with a completely different groove. A set of keys will contain all the bass hits, snares, etc. Essentially the groove becomes a drum kit. Will also work with Trigger Finger. I know that phatmatik does this and guru, but important not to forget that stylus does this.

2) Take a loop, and select ANY sound (or sub group of sounds), and apply effects INDEPENDENTLY to that subgroup. Want an echo on each quarter note? There instantaneously -- just slap the effect on down beats. What about the "and" of beats 1 and 3? There.

Take either of the above and multiply it by 8! Eight separate grooves can be set up and effected this way.

3) Or -- switch to a different mode, and now you can start/stop grooves either in time with the beat or instantly. I.E. if you have eight loops going, they are all automatically assigned a key. In this way you can mix and match the loops to make a combo groove out of all of them (i.e. loop 1 for 1 beat, then loop 2/3 combined for the next beat, then loops 1,7,8 for the next measure, etc you get the idea)

5) as mentioned before many of the elements are ("hits") are already available as separate samples/one shots. So you can just choose among these to build a custom kit and play a beat from scratch.

for the sake of being a PITA- what of these points could i NOT do with my C64 with recycle & my Akai 1000
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der_gary
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Post by der_gary » Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:39 pm

eisnein wrote:
solar28 wrote:Each "Slice" is auto-mapped across the keyboard so you can "play" the loop using the sounds with a completely different groove. A set of keys will contain all the bass hits, snares, etc. Essentially the groove becomes a drum kit. Will also work with Trigger Finger. I know that phatmatik does this and guru, but important not to forget that stylus does this.

2) Take a loop, and select ANY sound (or sub group of sounds), and apply effects INDEPENDENTLY to that subgroup. Want an echo on each quarter note? There instantaneously -- just slap the effect on down beats. What about the "and" of beats 1 and 3? There.

Take either of the above and multiply it by 8! Eight separate grooves can be set up and effected this way.

3) Or -- switch to a different mode, and now you can start/stop grooves either in time with the beat or instantly. I.E. if you have eight loops going, they are all automatically assigned a key. In this way you can mix and match the loops to make a combo groove out of all of them (i.e. loop 1 for 1 beat, then loop 2/3 combined for the next beat, then loops 1,7,8 for the next measure, etc you get the idea)

5) as mentioned before many of the elements are ("hits") are already available as separate samples/one shots. So you can just choose among these to build a custom kit and play a beat from scratch.

for the sake of being a PITA- what of these points could i NOT do with my C64 with recycle & my Akai 1000
... Who cares?! ... Go for it!!!

How exactly does your being a PITA - address the questions of the original poster?

glitchrock-buddha
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:47 pm

Stylus rmx is pretty great. Two things would make it the best though.
One- if you could import wave files.

Two- and more imoprtantly, if edit groups worked with a graphical waveform view like phatmatik or intakt. If you could pick the slices visually by hand to be in an edit group it would be infinitely better. That way you're not stuck with the options given. As it is now, its a pain and a bit limiting having to chose 1/16th notes or 1/8ths or whatever with no visual representation.

Otherwise, using it as a drum machine is awesome. Chose your own sounds, make a kit, it's all mapped as standard GM midi kit. Mixer, send effects etc. Sweet. Now if you could record your own loops within stylus to use in loop mode that'd be even better.

Glenn, if you're reading, I love it, but point #2 is really important in loopware.

cheers,
grb
Professional Shark Jumper.

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:59 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:Two- and more imoprtantly, if edit groups worked with a graphical waveform view like phatmatik or intakt. If you could pick the slices visually by hand to be in an edit group it would be infinitely better. That way you're not stuck with the options given. As it is now, its a pain and a bit limiting having to chose 1/16th notes or 1/8ths or whatever with no visual representation.

Glenn, if you're reading, I love it, but point #2 is really important in loopware.

cheers,
grb
agreed! my being a PITA has little to nothing to do with the original post. just being a PITA and expressing my thoughts on Stylus
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