Midi Timing

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:06 pm

Firstly I am glad I am not the only one who has noticed the midi problems
I have reported this directly to ableton but so far have not heard whether they are able to do anything about it.Lets hope so
I would like to add a few points in reply to some of the responses here
1. Midi timing not reproducable this is not a problem with the way us users all record midi, quantised or not. I have been using midi since cubase atari st and know how to put beats on the beat and if quantise is on then it should quantise the midi...it should not mess around.I dont want to sound off here but it isnt brain surgery its meant to be simple we are not making mistakes the software is...end of.
2. I find it very hard to understand that ableton cannot reproduce this (Its as if midi is not really tested or it would have been noticed). Load Live play with an impulse make a load of midi clips of different breaks and proceed to make audio clips from midi loops by recording them in real time. Listen to the results or look at the files in the editor window (How they have been cut and looped) This is where I notice the problems
3. PDC this needs serious attention
PDC should not affect an instruments response to notes
That is what a quantizing midi plugin does PDC is a completly different thing yet it acts on midi timing when turned on.
4. As for CC in clips. Doesnt seem like this has been looked at either and I have never had any luck with it.Seems to me people are using other applications to bus midi in and out of live externally to use this function properly Midi yoke etc
No good for me.

Ableton get on the case please
Midi timing is very important in an audio/midi DAW

pix · Post by **pix** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:09 pm

kineticUk wrote: 4. As for CC in clips. Doesnt seem like this has been looked at either and I have never had any luck with it.Seems to me people are using other applications to bus midi in and out of live externally to use this function properly Midi yoke etc
No good for me.

What are you experiencing with this? I've been shouting around about this problem for months now and so far I only found another soul that had the same problem. It makes me think it's my system, but I know my way around troubleshooting and this seems to be a problem with Live.

Say you record a midi clip and tweak some knobs (CCs).

Then start recording a new clip in the same track and record only notes. Check the CC info. Anything recorded?

I'd really like to get this straight to check that it's not something on my system that's causing it.

pix · Post by **pix** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:40 am

just got the confirmation from another member. It really happens this way. A major flaw IMHO.

Cryptic UK · Post by **Cryptic UK** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:21 am

sort it out ableton please

craw · Post by **craw** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:03 pm

yeh ... please, please, please

Groovecake · Post by **Groovecake** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:04 pm

So is there any new word on this?

djmoose · Post by **djmoose** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:40 pm

Jesus...I've been working on a track...and just added 2 new synths (midi tracks) and APPARENTLY, the more midi tracks you have in a live set...the slower some vsts react? I have some quick patterns to an arpegiated synth that was sounding perfect, until recently and it's simply a timing and response issue.

Terrible.

djmoose · Post by **djmoose** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:48 pm

djmoose wrote:Jesus...I've been working on a track...and just added 2 new synths (midi tracks) and APPARENTLY, the more midi tracks you have in a live set...the slower some vsts react? I have some quick patterns to an arpegiated synth that was sounding perfect, until recently and it's simply a timing and response issue.

Terrible.

Nevermind...I changed the universal groove setting to 10...and it was just enough to not even play a few quick notes.

whew

WaveRider · Post by **WaveRider** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 4:45 pm

pix wrote: Another prblem I've been fighting with is that I usually get erratic midi CC info into my midi clips. Does this also happen to you?

If I record a midi clip with some knobs tweaked, all other clips in that track will have the same CC# "locked" to begin with. Meaning that if you want to tweak your synth over som recorded notes, the sound keeps getting restarted everytime the clip loops.

This is really annoying.

yeah that is so troublesome!!!!!!!

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:40 pm

djmoose wrote:Jesus...I've been working on a track...and just added 2 new synths (midi tracks) and APPARENTLY, the more midi tracks you have in a live set...the slower some vsts react? I have some quick patterns to an arpegiated synth that was sounding perfect, until recently and it's simply a timing and response issue. Terrible.

Moose - where did you come by this info/which VSTis/just on transport playback (auto monitoring) or actual physical playback (monitoring in) etc? I've been experiencing major issues with physical playback VSTi latencies in large projects in V5 that I never had in V4.

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... highlight=

Even tiny ASIO buffers still result in +100ms latencies in large projects! In terms of DAW and production work this is proving increasingly frustrating...

[rant] Even more so when valuable dev time for 5.2 has included a port for the IntelMac massive, all 50-100 of them lol, whilst those on PC's and PPC's are still waiting for a rock solid, as in 4.14, update months after the initial release. Surely it would've made so much more sense to bring out a refined V6 with the IntelMac port? [/rant]

djmoose · Post by **djmoose** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:51 pm

didi you read my next message? I was wrong.

Nod · Post by **Nod** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:46 pm

djmoose wrote:didi you read my next message? I was wrong.

You mean changing the swing setting? Hmm..maybe you were wrong mate but I still have no idea what's causing the additional latency in my larger projects

JRad · Post by **JRad** » Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:18 pm

bump

I've had this problem with 4+5 on multiple computers with multiple cards (I stupidly upgraded thinking that might help). The way i see it, if ableton can pushes midi back in time to match audio latency, it should not ALSO push the recorded external midi to that latency setting. LIKE EVERY OTHER SEQUENCER OUT THERE. It's like the software looks at the midi tracks and completely ignores the track outs and says "you cant possibly mean to play that note there, this is where you would hear the sound so im moving it
"

I bought 5 to sort out this problem. It didnt. I Now am resricted to using minimal audio content so I can drop my latency. Currently this situation is Pathetic, and UNETHICAL and makes me mad.

We can only hope 6 is the answer to our prayers.

pushtobreak · Post by **pushtobreak** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:56 pm

Came to this thread looking for answers. I can see none. I can't believe this is an unsolved issue. Having these problems with all updated versions and os, Mac g5 2ghz and Trigger finger. This sucks!

JRad · Post by **JRad** » Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:59 pm

I'm going to email ableton see what they say. I just cant justify PAYING! and using v 6 when I cant record anything. until I know this issue is resolved (bought 5 at beginning of year cos I liked the demo of 4). Interesting that this issue exists for the Mac as well.... expecting resounding silence - or at least alot of Latency

Aside - Is there anyone who had and now doesn't have this problem in using midi hardware with the latest version what did u do?

My specs 1

2.1 gighz athlon 512 RAM Dmx 6fire XP pro nvidia gforceMX/G force FX

specs 2

1.9 gig laptop, 1gig ram, various cards all USB midisort 8*8, M-audio delta, edirol UA101