compression confession

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:58 pm

Yeah, Live plugins are designed to take it easy on the cpu and are hedged between quality vs cpu load. Yuk. If it were possible to use 48 bit dbl precision plugins and dither in Live, your Live session and/or computer would grind to a halt. So yes, master in a different program. .... The essence of mastering is to be competetive with your fave hit makers and to not sound flat if your track follows one. That can be complicated or simple depending what you are starting with. A good mix takes five minutes for a good mastering guy who isn't stretching the clock. A crap mix can take too long with compromises ruling the session . Mastering regardless is surprizingly simple and loaded with a lot of audiophile voodoo. The simplest way to understand what you need is to always set up and use an A-B reference system. Rip the competitors track into your session and switch back and forth between them. This is easy with two cd players and a little calibration too. Do you like how you stack up? If yes, your done. If no, you're not done. And if you never get there, then you lost it in the mixing stage. We all want big levels and maximum punch, but this is a delicate dance. Too much level and you lose punch, too much punch and you lose level. And remember your ears and brain will trick you before the gear will. Proper AB-ing will keep that to a minimum. Always A B. For the record I'm not a big fan of maximum gain pushing. Keep it punchy.

charles-l · Post by **charles-l** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:24 pm

hi

i heard that attack times of around 5 to 10 are good and slowish release, is this any good?
(source - ableton live power - carrier/hill)

I'm feed up with my tunes sound poor after I made them in Live where I feel they sound good up until mastering.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Charlie
www.silver-kyoto.com

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:51 pm

No. There are NOOOOO magic settings when it comes to compression, no 'starting places'. The settings are 100 dependant on the source material.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:58 pm

Mastering only makes something good better. So make the song sound the way you want it to. Then let somebody else put their ears on it with some good mastering tools. Otherwise you will waste your efforts for the art in the tech. Yes, there has to be tech heads. If that is your case then save your pennies for monitors and tools. Tweak, tweak tweak your sounds and listen to the stuff on anything you can find. Take notes, read till you fall asleep... tweak some more. Have Fun!

Mastering is not always about the equipment as much as it is knowing your equipment.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:20 pm

i heard that attack times of around 5 to 10 are good and slowish release, is this any good?
(source - ableton live power - carrier/hill)

No, that's much too fast for mastering compression. Try 20 to 30 ms at 2 or 3 to 1 ratio and a threshold that taps the meter just a few db. (5 to 10 ms will wimp your beat n bass punch.) Release times are somewhat song tempo dependent. If it's too slow it won't recover to nominal levels before the next beat. Then after that gentle compressor add a maximizing plugin like a Waves L2 or it's ilk and raise the gain till your tapping that a 1/2db or so or until you hear it losing it's edge and punch if you want to be level agressive. But that, and that's a big but, is a blind general cookie cutting setting. It might not solve your problem. You claim your stuff sounds good before mastering? you're crushing the dynamics out of it. I suspect your individual tracks might be too pinched also. More compression always means less dynamics, and less dynamics will always mean more percieved gain. Yeah, it's a bitch. A maximizing limiter and a light touch will most likely serve you better. Improper compression destroy's more than 50% of the material i'm asked to mix. I spend a lot of time adding dynamics and punch to mixes these days.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:16 am

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:33 am

why, oh why, do people who likely can't even mix very well think they should get involved in trying to master? i should have read the rest of the responses, but the real answer is, if you have to ask, you shouldn't even be trying to use compression to master (let alone live's compressor). just mix your stuff so it sounds great everywhere you can listen to it, you're done. if at some point you need real mastering, someone will tell you, and likely also suggest who should do it.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:53 am

dj superflat wrote:why, oh why, do people who likely can't even mix very well think they should get involved in trying to master? i should have read the rest of the responses, but the real answer is, if you have to ask, you shouldn't even be trying to use compression to master (let alone live's compressor). just mix your stuff so it sounds great everywhere you can listen to it, you're done. if at some point you need real mastering, someone will tell you, and likely also suggest who should do it.

Amen

Mixing is mastering. Except with more channels.

stonee · Post by **stonee** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:31 pm

I still have to let it sit for a few days and come back to it, but i've had good luck mastering in live.

one thing I find with live, is as soon as you hit red, you start loosing audio.

I've also had good luck using an apple peak limiter.

it completely depends on the style your mixing down as well.

my style was harder louder dance type stuff.

my chain goes eq 8 >compressor >apple peak limiter

I start off by using only enough compressor to control my levels. just enough to push down anything thats too high, and bring up the quiet parts just a bit. most of the time, its not really doing anything.

i like to punch the bass a bit, so i put a bump on eq 8 to raise the kick a bit. next thing, I hate overly high stuff, so i put a low pass on position 4, which helps make it sound cleaner, and gets rid of any noise that may be in it. usually I'll push the highs up a bit, because I have a lot of high melodies.
the last thing that I do is put a bump in the eq where my mid melody is.

this helps isolate each part of the song, and bring the melodies up, while putting background stuff in the background.

and lastly, the apple peak limiter stop me from pushing stuff over into the red and distorting.

over all, the point is to bring up the parts of the song you want to focus on, and push back what you dont want
and, keep the levels as close to 0 db as much as possible. keep you vu meter green.

this method works well for me, but I'm using mostly electronic sounds, with no vocals.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:03 pm

http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:04 pm

Oops, double post.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:26 pm

Tarekith wrote:http://tarekith.com/assets/mastering.html

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

good stuff T

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:38 pm

Thanks man.

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:26 pm

Tarekith wrote:No. There are NOOOOO magic settings when it comes to compression, no 'starting places'. The settings are 100 dependant on the source material.

typical muggle response.

I bet Live's compressor will be more than good enough for you for some time to come. Despite what some folks say, don't throw $$$ at this problem... throw time and effort.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:42 pm

laird wrote:
Tarekith wrote:No. There are NOOOOO magic settings when it comes to compression, no 'starting places'. The settings are 100 dependant on the source material.
typical muggle response.

I bet Live's compressor will be more than good enough for you for some time to come. Despite what some folks say, don't throw $$$ at this problem... throw time and effort.

Money can help a lot with quality.

If

And that's a big if.

Get better stuff "If", you have truly reached the limitations of the unit or software with your ability. I can make Live's comp sing just fine, but I can't get what I need out of it.

Many here have moved onto better stuff. But that doesn't mean Live has lame processors. Beauty in the eye and all that.