Getting a clearer vocoder sound.

Fantismo · Post by **Fantismo** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:57 pm

Hi im using a basic vocoder in ableton.. but im getting naff results..

can anyone suggest an improvement, money is not a concern.

have a look here a song that uses vocoder - i dont think its clear

http://www.badloader.com/newsong00.mp3

These are the lyrics (its not finished)

i open up the door of my ferrari
assimilate and never let me go
we walk upon the people that have made us
we walk upon the faces that you know

lets imagine i am my amiga
digital conversation of my love
with your white fingers on my keyboard
with your pale hands inside my power glove

i am in a screen made black glass
you are on the leather of my white chair
hear the sound of heels on the marble
you feel cold fingers in your hair

and just imagine we are in the 80s
and just imagine how we might have felt
when you start singing in the mirror
and i start wishing i knew legowelt

jbible · Post by **jbible** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:12 pm

Ha awesome song!! I think the vocoding sounds good. What did you use?

Very DMX Krew.

I love the line "and i start wishing i knew legowelt". Danny would find that amusing.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:22 pm

My favourite vocoder is the Evoc the comes with Logic. Yummy!

The main thing that makes a difference to vocoder sound is the quialities of the input signal - ie the voice input.

1. A spoken, rather than sung, vocal input will give clearer, more intelligible results. This is because in spoken voice there are more harmonics for the vocoder to recognise so it gets a wider signal to play with.

2. Try radically EQ'ind the voice before it hits the vocoder input: a high shelf / big mids boost / lo cut / will all effect the quality of the vocoded output. Experiment!

Another trick is to overdrive or distort the vocal input. You are, again, adding more harmonics for the vocoder's frequency-dividing network to pick up.

<edit> Oh, and compressing the vocal input can help add sibillance which in turn adds to intelligibility.

Hope this helps!

DJElementDC · Post by **DJElementDC** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:58 pm

Where is the vocoder effect group in ableton??

Ari

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:16 pm

There isn't one. Fantismo must be using a 3rd-party plugin. Care to spill the beans Fantismo?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:48 pm

Fantismo wrote: money is not a concern.

wow, nice situation!

if money was no concern for me I'd be out buying big toys.

that has nothing todo with vocoding I know, but I get these intermittent uncontrollable bursts of modular lust.

meanwhile, back on topic -
as far as inteligibility of a vocoders, you need more harmonic content in your carrier (the synth). Some vocoders used a burst of white noise on 'plosives' to increase inteligibility. It sounds like yours doesn't - but never mind, I don't like that tech anyway

just add alittle more harmonic content to the synth, whatever seems most appropriate to you.
EG: by adding a ring modulated oscillator low down in the osc mix (adds sum and differenc harmonics) ,or just addin a PWM wave will add ton of harmonics , or perhaps try a fatish chorus (not a weak 1 delay thing). Even adding a little white noise can help.

that sort of thing

smog g · Post by **smog g** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:41 am

try this: i use orange vocoder. the carrier is the well compressed and a lil distorted vocal. the modulator is sponsored by refx vanguard.
i create a synth , where attack=0 decar and sustain are at max and release, well whatever you want...
the most important thing is, that you take the chord plugin and set it :
-12 +12 +24. when you play a melodie with the vanguard it should sound good.

by the way, the song is really good!

Fantismo · Post by **Fantismo** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:02 am

I am using a totally simple plugin (about all i can manage!)

MDA Vocoder..

Here are all the mda plugings, including the vocoder. (free)

http://mda.smartelectronix.com/effects.htm

jbible - Thanks, I sent the song to danny, he just replied "hehe"

Pitch Black - Thanks for the tips - i will expiriment with eq and compression!

Angstrom - thanks for the harmonic tips - i shall do that!

smog g - thanks - does orange vocoder work ok on ableton?? - i thoguht there were problems

wavejumper · Post by **wavejumper** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:29 pm

i personally think the vocoder sounds pretty good on that tune, nice track as well, yea, very dmx crew...don't really use vocoders so I can't offer alternatives, I normally use the grain delay to morph my vocals

smog g · Post by **smog g** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:48 pm

Fantismo wrote:
smog g - thanks - does orange vocoder work ok on ableton?? - i thoguht there were problems

yes it does. i only work with live. i didnt stumble over probs jet.
get orange 2x.

another tip for widening the vocal before it reaches the vocoder:

use a pithshift plugin on it set around 30% wet and between +5 to +12 semitones up /down shifting. play around a little.
it makes the vocal wider and the vocoder has more bandwith to operate with. i think the grain delay is good for that since its a good shifter when you set delay to minimum.

something else:

did you know that vocoders were invented by the military to encryp vocal content so that it cannot be understood by the enemy,but when recieved by the one with the counterpart of the vocoder it coud be decodated again?

Fantismo · Post by **Fantismo** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:53 pm

wavejumper - thanks for the feedback!

smog g - Thanks for the I will try that technique and ill get orange - i had heard about the military using vocoders for that but it didnt make sense to me much.. i guess i understand now.

Incidently, can anyone reccomend their all time favourite vocoder laden tracks?

smog g · Post by **smog g** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:03 pm

i-f - space invaders are smoking grass (which is one of my most favourite songs ever)
antony rother - little computer people

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:11 pm

Beautiful World - Devo

PLB · Post by **PLB** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:26 pm

your track rocks!

i think it would sound great with a slightly meatier vocode...sorry i can't give any advice there just wanted to compliment your track

LJ Martin · Post by **LJ Martin** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:01 pm

how about mixing in some clean signal with the effected signal to increase clarity, we do this all the time in post with radio futz's.

Getting a clearer vocoder sound.

Getting a clearer vocoder sound.

where is the vocoder built in effect?

Re: Getting a clearer vocoder sound.

Thanks for the responses!

nice

Re: Thanks for the responses!

Thanks again guys..