6 better be a rock !!!!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:35 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:I have low expectations of software in general and a very low tolerance for wrenching on my PC when I want to make music. One thing I LOVE about Live are the workarounds, I don't even want to install Bidule or MIDI yoke because I enjoy the ways I can tweak Live. So, when my system gets weird or I get pops or it starts to slow down I bounce down, rearrange, rethink what I'm doing. I'm Live's bitch, I work around it, not the other way around. I don't know if that's good or bad, never thought about it, I just bang beats.

I hear ya brother. Your explanation is great. Don't get me wrong, a pro like me getting into Live is problematic. It's a brilliant program. Help me make it "our" bitch and get Abe's to make good on it's promise and call them out on the ton o features smoke screens. Hell, howabout "Live 5 Pro" any takers?

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:03 pm

djadonis206 wrote:One of the guys at Ableton HQ owes me some money for some weed so I'm going to kick someone somehwere if I don't get my cheddar

Dude, Henke recently pulled the old "I gotto use the john" like two seconds before the check showed up. Those freakin' cheapskates!

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:06 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:I don't know if that's good or bad...I just bang beats.

Well, I'm not gonna tell you who or what your sexual preferences ought to be. I myself prefer to bang chicks, and occassionaly Brad Pitt, but that's just me. You do whatever works for you, girlfriend.

j0shu@ · Post by **j0shu@** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:24 pm

heh. ^

im hoping for improved reliability as well. if you scan the forums you will find tons of examples of folks who say things like "i have this huge set and i only use 4, it crashes after a minute in 5", numerous mp3 related problems, and a general sense of inefficiency.

i concur, 4 was much more solid with whatever you would throw at it. i know my systems are not the best, but i also know 4 was more reliable and 5 just kind of acts freakier.

there is additonal overhead to be expected with all the new features, but the apps name is LIVE not DAW, and a lot of us are finding it is not stable enough to completely rely on. this is not a good direction in my opnion.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:28 pm

nebulae wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote:I don't know if that's good or bad...I just bang beats.
Well, I'm not gonna tell you who or what your sexual preferences ought to be. I myself prefer to bang chicks, and occassionaly Brad Pitt, but that's just me. You do whatever works for you, girlfriend.

Not all the beats were men, there was Diane DiPrima, Brenda Frazer, Anne Waldman... I wouldn't bang Burroughs with radeon's dick but Ginsberg's body is still somewhat in tact, good times!!

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:34 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:
nebulae wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote:I don't know if that's good or bad...I just bang beats.
Well, I'm not gonna tell you who or what your sexual preferences ought to be. I myself prefer to bang chicks, and occassionaly Brad Pitt, but that's just me. You do whatever works for you, girlfriend.
Not all the beats were men, there was Diane DiPrima, Brenda Frazer, Anne Waldman... I wouldn't bang Burroughs with radeon's dick but Ginsberg's body is still somewhat in tact, good times!!

I'm getting really worried about you, my friend....

Diane DiPrima:

Brenda Frazer:

Anne Waldman:

I seriously think you and I need to sit down over a beer, so that I can explain a few things to you.

j0shu@ · Post by **j0shu@** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:41 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: I wouldn't bang Burroughs with radeon's dick but Ginsberg's body is still somewhat in tact, good times!!

i really did lol on this one.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:45 pm

ohhh man, now I'm really glad they were all buried face down. Beer is usually where it starts, then a few 'ludes, some E, the PCP, next thing you know I've got the KY in one hand and a shovel in the other.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:48 pm

knotkranky wrote:Nah, i ain't kranky, I just want Live to be a rock....I don't have serious reliability problems. I have little reliability problems. On a scale of 1 to 10; Logic and Protools are a 2. Live5 is a by comparison a 7. My system is tip top, my expectations high, tolerance low. 20 years in the biz i bet. Yes all programs have bugs, but the most bothersome ones are the ones that affect the audio negatively. A crash, file menu flaw, slow redraws are obvious and can be trusted to be just that. But something in the audio that makes you go; "What was that?" is most unnerving. That's not a bug, that's a problem. And Live has more of those than all the others.

As far as satisfied users, there are plenty. But i'm not the only one bitching about this. Threads o plenty! The ones who complain are stretching out Live in the most tame of ways compared to other apps.

One may say; "Live is running tip top for me" but what are you doing? and why are your production values the benchmark for reliability issues.

Ok so, Anybody running 32+ tracks of audio with some simple plugs, without a single glitch all day?

My cpu cannot handle 32+ tracks and plugins with live.
(and i can't imagine ever using that many tracks when i'm writing electronic music. I have the luxury of it not being real time performance based. bounce bounce bounce.)

what i'm getting at is that what you are talking about are cpu issues, not stability. The deal is, you can do all sorts of stuff to live *while the audio still plays*. That contributes to it sucking up a lot of cpu. Those moments when your asking "what was that?" don't happen randomly, they happen when you are pushing too hard on cpu.

Sure, this sucks, but i'll say it again, for the last time in this thread, i promise:

Live is not a replacement for a tape machine, it is an advanced sequencer/instrument.

If you want it to be a DAW, you're gonna have to wait.

Of course, on the other hand, good luck using pro-tools to *create* music.

well, i've beaten it to death. I'm sure everybody here hears where i'm coming from. I'm gonna slink away now.

.lm.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:59 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:well, i've beaten it to death

Dude, I don't think it's you, but rather the sheer number of these posts that beats these questions to death...

Is Live a true DAW? Is CPU usage more/less efficient in this/that DAW? Is audio quality better in XYZ DAW than in Live? How many tracks can I do in Live? Is Mac better than PC for Live?

My two cents are that even after participating in these discussion, I've come to the conclusion that they only serve to make less music. I enjoy posts that are funny and silly, but any kind of comparison game doesn't make sense for me anymore. I think part of the reason is that Live versions 3, 4, and 5 have all been rock solid. I've used Live as a helper, as a main DAW, as a performance tool, etc. I've done songs with 50+ tracks of 24-bit audio, with plugs galore, and have had no issues. I've used other DAWS as well. And for me, it all comes down to the fact that Live lets me be creative and make music.

Is it more efficient than Cubase or Sonar? Probably not, but who gives a fuck if you can make a ton more music with Live? Can it do as many tracks? Maybe not, but who cares if you have enough tracks for your songs? I find these threads just take away a lot of time and energy from the main goal - to make music and have fun doing it. I can understand that for many, crashes are not fun, so I empathize with those folks. But for me, Live is the most fun, most creative, and easiest to use tool for getting music done. And that's worth more than any Pro Tools rig, or time spent on any other application.

dbolt · Post by **dbolt** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:06 pm

DKF wrote:

So, when my system gets weird or I get pops or it starts to slow down I bounce down, rearrange, rethink what I'm doing. I'm Live's bitch, I work around it, not the other way around. I don't know if that's good or bad, never thought about it, I just bang beats.

I dig it DKF, I worship LIVE its our GOD

not really, but yea it sucks when you have some of these small problems but with workarounds and bounce down and conserve CPU these ideas work and you can lay down tracks this way easily.

But I also think every program acts differently on everyones system its just so tedious how computers and software works. Not everybodys system is the same. IMHO

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:20 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:ohhh man, now I'm really glad they were all buried face down. Beer is usually where it starts, then a few 'ludes, some E, the PCP, next thing you know I've got the KY in one hand and a shovel in the other.

Frikkin funny!!!

atmofunk · Post by **atmofunk** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:43 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote:I have low expectations of software in general and a very low tolerance for wrenching on my PC when I want to make music. One thing I LOVE about Live are the workarounds, I don't even want to install Bidule or MIDI yoke because I enjoy the ways I can tweak Live. So, when my system gets weird or I get pops or it starts to slow down I bounce down, rearrange, rethink what I'm doing. I'm Live's bitch, I work around it, not the other way around. I don't know if that's good or bad, never thought about it, I just bang beats.

fo sho, yo!

TranNgoc2010 · Post by **TranNgoc2010** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:10 am

Hello it is me Tran!

It is a weird hour here in Vietnam right now and I stumbled across your topic. Live 5 while I find it to be somewhat buggy i.e. clips launching not on the beat (I have all quantize settings set to bar) odd screen redraws and the crackles in my mixdowns I think Live 6 in itself will be revolutionary. they will fix bugs, no problem I trust they have a dedicated staff but I am excited at what features will enhance my CHICAGO HOUSE experience. Are you saying Live 5 is so good all to focus energy is tightening up around the edges? Or are you saying it's a complete no good application. I make fine CHICAGO HOUSE right now but I stumble on a good Detriot Techno record by a Carl Craig. He is good yes on JUNO RECORDS. I also like the techno music of a SVEN VATH (has anyone heard of him?) I also like to hear the sounds of his night in Ibiza Cacoon.

I wish to travel to Ibiza and go to MEGANITE and CACOON. I would be the only veitnamese man there but I think techno music and CHICAGO HOUSE transcend all race and culture borders.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:37 am

Ok gentleman, I'm not looking to compare apps. I'm looking to get the Abe's decision makers to pull their heads out. I'm not comparing anything but stability. Live's feature set keeps growing and the stability keeps shrinking. This we all agree. Right? Have you guys visited the Live 5 feature set list. Wow, wow, wow. This is most definitely a full feature DAW. ... Unlimited 32bit 192k tracks!...Maybe at NORAD!. Go check it out if you haven't in a while. It's phatt. I get hard just reading it.

I've done songs with 50+ tracks of 24-bit audio, with plugs galore, and have had no issues.

ummm, right, I'll take that as a not in Live 5.

what i'm getting at is that what you are talking about are cpu issues, not stability. The deal is, you can do all sorts of stuff to live *while the audio still plays*. That contributes to it sucking up a lot of cpu. Those moments when your asking "what was that?" don't happen randomly, they happen when you are pushing too hard on cpu.

I agree and I love the while it plays functionality and warp, but, I've got a fast box, a butt load of ram, raptor drives and an OS set up just for Live. And believe me The "what was that" "is" completely random on light professional session loads. It's not so much cpu issues but more like Lives issue with the cpu. It's an allocation issue.

Is Live a true DAW? you bet it is. So where's the beef?

C'mon guys, i'm not trying to crash the party or say you're using the wrong program. You are using the right program for sure. But ya gotta stick it to Abe's and let them know that they can't just keep on piling on features that take away from the most basic of audio needs. STABILITY IS QUALITY my friends. I think Live is the shiznats yet, It can be way better. Man, I want a reliability riot. This program can be better and you guys are saying; "nah, it's cool, I get by just fine". Anybody out there wants this program to be better needs to get in Abe's grill and say it LOUD!. Anyway, it looks like you'll get your video though, glitch, glitch, skip.