6 better be a rock !!!!

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:31 am

knotkranky wrote:
I've done songs with 50+ tracks of 24-bit audio, with plugs galore, and have had no issues.
ummm, right, I'll take that as a not in Live 5.

Yes, that's in Live 5, and my CPU was at (ready for this?) 52% with an effect or two on almost every track. (Of course they were mainly Live effects, which are very CPU efficient).

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:04 am

Dear knotkranky,

You keep telling us again and again how you are a "pro".

knotkranky wrote:You bet us pro's..

knotkranky wrote:Don't get me wrong, a pro like me getting into Live..

Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much.

Why have you not contacted Ableton directly? What are you doing on the ableton.com forum bitching and moaning? That is not a very "pro" thing to do. You do know that the "pros" get a bit of special assistance in getting things working, yes? Just look at the Artists page (full of "pros"). Do you see any of them throwing a bitch fit on the forum?

No. They are probably too busy with their PROfession to post here and if they have issues they'll go direct to the source. I'm sure most of them have no issues or they would not endorse this product.

So you're either:

A.) full of shit, and no more "pro" than the majority of posters here. Although you seem to put some effort into making it clear that you are "pro".

Or

B.) just an idiot.

Which is it? A? B? Both?

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:16 am

kranky, this is a bit silly. you're only evidence that live is not sufficiently stable is based on your own experience, so you have to accept the response of those who have a different experience (like mine -- live's been rock solid, particularly compared to logic). as for trying to pull rank as a "pro," get over yourself. all sorts of people on this forum are pros (though they may not need to self-proclaim as such), and i mean serious pros, not just people who aspire (i'm not saying you're not a pro, just indicating that i understand what you mean by pro). if you can't find a way to make live stable they way you're currently running it, get a new system. there are a number of people here who would be happy to share the details of the set up that's been running flawlessly for them.

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:26 am

dj superflat wrote: there are a number of people here who would be happy to share the details of the set up that's been running flawlessly for them.

uhh: Live 4.02 under OS9

Kranky may be getting kranky BUT: for live (small L) reliability is all.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 4:51 am

Uh-oh.

one of the local monkey accounts has come out and the thread has desended into the pit of despair.

I wonder what my man GranMarnierAndYoohoo would have to say about all this...
he'd prolly just say fuck all y'all.

It's so hard to have a discussion around here sometimes.

.lm.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:58 am

Ok, Yeah!!, glad to hear it's on. I just saw "V for Vendetta" ya know. Fellas, first I love this program.... In my career I've read a stack of manuals on a ton of gear a mile high. I'm done with new programs other than ProTools. I use it simply because it is a studio standard I grew up on and HD sounds stellar, plus it pays my bills. Before that I came from analog multi's, lynx's, 3348's, huge consoles, crazy automation OS's and smpte offsets flying everywhere etc. But when I checked out Live I knew I was gonna try and rap my head around this new app. I wantedsomething different that was not redundant to PT. When I got my noodle around Live, I was hooked. Ableton really has something with Live. How can a great idea not catch the imagination of some high end audio users. So yes, in that respect I am a pain in the ass. But, this can be a good thing.

To the gentlemen who implies that I am full of shit "or" just an idiot. I am a professional and so are you most likely. When i said us pro's. I really meant "us" pro's and had no intention of singling myself out from all you fine gentleman and ladies who support yourselves with the production biz. I have learned the most about Live from you over this forum for the last two years. So with all do respect.

Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much. Just an idiot, full of shit.

Well, that's "all" you have done with me sir. And it's clear I have caused some trouble since your reply to my post has nothing of any substance. All protest through name calling and no logical retort. I am flattered.

Why have you not contacted Ableton directly? What are you doing on the ableton.com forum bitching and moaning? That is not a very "pro" thing to do. You do know that the "pros" get a bit of special assistance in getting things working, yes? Just look at the Artists page (full of "pros"). Do you see any of them throwing a bitch fit on the forum?

No I don't see "them" throwing fits, but I do see many pro's who use "this" forum bitch plenty about the same bitches. I'm on the forum bitching because I love Live. And that is a very pro thing to do, and a little punk rock too. I mean it's a forum right? If a bunch of you want me to stay off the forum I will. Yes I am being provocative, but in the most positive sense. Understand this, I use Live and it's done me a world of good for what I love. For now I use PT and Live, but later I just want to stay in Live and have PT sitting around for no good reason. Hey, maybe i'll be dropping in on 24 tracks in Live 6 or 7 with a great band with no hiccups or worries. Then pull up some loops, a synth and change the tempo just a hair maybe. I really want to hear people doing stuff like that in Live with great fidelity and stability, so I can do it too.

They are probably too busy with their PROfession to post here and if they have issues they'll go direct to the source. I'm sure most of them have no issues or they would not endorse this product.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had to write this after my mix tonight. Anyway it would be more helpful if my professional colleagues would post on this forum too. Maybe their issues could solve many of the same issues and inspire other Live users on this forum. My Live setup is tighty tight. But, I will call Ableton and be diligent in making sure all issues are addressed and then I will post my results on this very thread.
Please understand, I would endorse Live to anyone, even with the issues. But, Live needs to show up for the pro audio market and that debate is what having a hot app is all about.

udp · Post by **udp** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:54 pm

Do you think that many of these issues are being addressed by the rewrite of Live that will give us "faster audio". When 5.2 was announced the Abes said that they are working on giving us all faster audio in version 6 and that duo processor support is only part of that strategy.

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:09 pm

leisuremuffin wrote: Besides, Pro-tools isn't really useful for anything other than straight up tracking editing/arranging and mixing.

.lm.

I had to titter at your comment that tracking/editing/arranging and mixing is all pro tools can do. This is not enough or important?

For mixing/audio editing and linear arranging Pro tools beats Live hands down but you make it sound like those crucial elements are by the by.

Dont try so hard man.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:26 pm

udp wrote:Do you think that many of these issues are being addressed by the rewrite of Live that will give us "faster audio". When 5.2 was announced the Abes said that they are working on giving us all faster audio in version 6 and that duo processor support is only part of that strategy.

What does "faster audio" mean? I know that once my CPU hits 40-50%, I have a hard time drawing clip envelopes. I also know this doesn't happen on Live 4. So what exactly is faster?

This thread is all about conjecture and comparison...What a waste of time... Guys, let's get back to making music or talking shit about each other...at least that's more fun.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:37 pm

mercyplease wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote: Besides, Pro-tools isn't really useful for anything other than straight up tracking editing/arranging and mixing.

.lm.
I had to titter at your comment that tracking/editing/arranging and mixing is all pro tools can do. This is not enough or important?

For mixing/audio editing and linear arranging Pro tools beats Live hands down but you make it sound like those crucial elements are by the by.

Dont try so hard man.

Did you read any of the rest of my posts? I think you miss the point.

No, tracking/mixing/editing/arranging is not enough unless i am working with excellent real time performers.

Did you understand what i meant when i said, "good luck *creating* music with pro tools?"

The majority of people who came to live are from a backround of electronic music, not engineers. These people understand what live excells at, making loop-based music break out of the loop. I'm a little bit on both sides, I've recorded and mixed "rock" bands as well as composed and performed original electronic music. I understand that pro-tools has an advantage for straight up tracking and mixing, but why would anyone buy live if that is all they wanted to do with it? Tracking/mixing and editing does not write music.

And by the way, there's nothing really wrong with live's mixing and editing capabilities, there's just a few simple little features that would put it over the top. Like edit and mix groups as i keep saying. It's not like pro-tools somehow sounds better when mixing. It just has an easier workflow because that is the only thing it does.

.lm.

eisnein · Post by **eisnein** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:58 pm

oh man oh man-i dont mean to trolll this shit but seriously

lets start with this -

But from the ones who know that's not true, 6 better be a rock. I want 6 to be tight. You pro's know what i'm talking about. Live apologists; you're out numbered. Ableton; get it together. Your app is damn cool.

from the ones WHO KNOW implies an insider status and at those who dont agree are wrong and unknowing?

One may say; "Live is running tip top for me" but what are you doing? and why are your production values the benchmark for reliability issues.

ive got to say the same to you. why is Live not serious because you "pros" say it aint so?

"Ok so, Anybody running 32+ tracks of audio with some simple plugs, without a single glitch all day?"

ah there is the benchmark then!

a pro like me getting into Live is problematic. It's a brilliant program. Help me make it "our" bitch and get Abe's to make good on it's promise and call them out on the ton o features smoke screens. Hell, howabout "Live 5 Pro" any takers?

oh man. what kind of pro are you? and why is it problematic? and if you hang around the forum you will, if you havent already noticed that Ableton has a specific forum for BUGS & PROBLEMS. and it says for a faster response EMAIL them.

in terms of their updates it seems that they tend to actually take the time to read these and include suggestions from actual users and not just "the pros" that endorse them. there are countless improvements suggested right here on this board that were implemented in 5.

I've got a fast box, a butt load of ram, raptor drives and an OS set up just for Live.

and you own fair share of boasting.

STABILITY IS QUALITY my friends

which is why everyone loves Space Echos, TR808s, and Jaguars.

in my career I've read a stack of manuals on a ton of gear a mile high.

and we have all encountered a ton of people who love to tell us they have.

and change the tempo just a hair maybe.

ah its true you are a pro and a working pro at that! you used the PC (not computer but the correctness) and didnt say Cunt Hair!

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:14 pm

*yawn* b o r i n g

signing off

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:30 pm

No doubt, that crap is boring for sure. I'm looking forward to Live users who will address the factual issue I have put forward. If it was a non-issue, then it would be so. You don't have to like me, but if you intend to focus on me more than the point, then what is "your" point? I agree, I am not so important, you can have it, but my complaints and love for Live, as shared by others, is.

why is Live not serious because you "pros" say it aint so?

Yes, that's right. In terms of audio output reliability, it's last in line with the big apps. But #1 in fun. Professionals really, really like reliability, but many will use it for what it is mainly strong for. A wonderfully creative writing tool. Then into PT, Logic, and Cubase we go. I can't use Live as a daw with a big client yet, but this is what I want. It's their baby sitting in the box and money ticking by. I can't risk that for both of our business or even ask my client to bare with the issues. We need that feeling of robustness and the program between the I/O being the way and never in the way. Or at least, very infrequently. Live does that supremely with ideas, but what about the audio? I'm excited about 6, it may be the most reliable Live yet. We will know soon enough.

eisnein · Post by **eisnein** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:40 pm

knotkranky wrote:No doubt, that crap is boring for sure. I'm looking forward to Live users who will address the factual issue I have put forward. If it was a non-issue, then it would be so. You don't have to like me, but if you intend to focus on me more than the point, then what is "your" point? I agree, I am not so important, you can have it, but my complaints and love for Live, as shared by others, is.

uhhhhhhh what the hell?

did you miss this--

if you hang around the forum you will, if you havent already noticed that Ableton has a specific forum for BUGS & PROBLEMS. and it says for a faster response EMAIL them.

in terms of their updates it seems that they tend to actually take the time to read these and include suggestions from actual users and not just "the pros" that endorse them. there are countless improvements suggested right here on this board that were implemented in 5.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 9:46 pm

Now, i could be wrong, but i'm assuming you're an engineer.
If you are, i can pretty much guaruntee that you will never use live as a DAW for a big client.

You can't even use logic or cubase as a DAW for a big client.
Name one major studio that does.
Plenty of project studios do, but i can't think of any major studio that uses something other than pro-tools to track to. Unless we're talking 2" tape.

And why would you want live as a DAW for a client? Are you writing for the client? What advantage would live present in a tracking or mixing situation? I don't know about you, but if it's about timing correction, I don't wanna do that job anyway. Another take of the offending part will cost the band less than me taking an hour to fix bad timing.

If you use it for what it's for and don't push the cpu you will find it to be plenty robust.

I'm sorry, but repeating that it is somehow unreliable over and over again does not make it so. You're just expecting live to be someting that it isn't and shouldn't be. 32+ entire song length tracks and plugins? I don't think so. 15 to 20 tracks with tons of 4 to 16 bar clips in each and plug-ins/virtuial instruments to create an original piece of music, yes. Or a similar setup for an electronic musician to do a live remix of their material on stage, yes.

.lm.