music theory question

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 3:30 am

PLB wrote:
longjohns wrote:
So, you have to use an accidental to get the Ab. Right, so we've flatted the 6. So what we've got now is C harmonic minor. (Natural minor would also have a flat 6, but would also have B flat rather than B natural)

i don't know where you are getting the idea to call this b dimisished chord c harmonic minor. maybe that would help clear up some of the confusion...

yes, by changing the A to A flat you indeed get a chord that occurs naturally in C harmonic minor, but you don't call that chord C harmonic minor, you still call it a diminshed b (or viio)

He's talking about how chords fit with scales and keys. He's a jazz student learning some odd stuff. I also don't agree with all he says but he's on the path, he's got a teacher and wants to learn, it's all good.

Jazzers tend to go off into the weeds on theory, it's their job.

PLB · Post by **PLB** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:00 am

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:22 am

yes, i was talking about the resulting scale, sorry.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:36 am

Dude, don't even sweat it. It's obvious you know what you're talking about, there's just a lot being thrown at you, I've read you're a jazz student and you have a teacher, damn, you're set (I don't want to read too much into your real situation). Take these questions to your teacher or ask over at wholenote or wherever, you'll get light years ahead of what all this is about in no time, my hat's off to you for pursuing a jazz education.

But you'll never think you know enough or are a good enough player, so stop apologizing.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:53 am

i just had a look at a thread over there about diminished chords, there was some interesting things.

including: take any dim7 chord. drop any one of the notes, and now you've got a dominant chord with the root where you just flatted. nifty!

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:12 am

Got a link? Sounds just crazy enough to be true. I know my dom7 chords better than the dim7, so this would be a way to learn dim7 chords.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:59 am

it's on this thread, starting maybe halfway down this first page. I don't quite get the layout of their forum yet. would be nice to have links to individual posts.

http://www.wholenote.com/fretbuzz/fbmsg ... 485#107491

hade · Post by **hade** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:42 pm

velocipedewheels wrote:
I guess just hearing answers like "start a c major scale on d, that's kinda like flamenco" are just absolutely incorrect, and in my opinion, the person seeking the answer, would like to know correct answers, not incorrect ones. Like when I ask a software question, I prefer a correct answer.

S'cuse me, I did all my essay writing years ago when i did my music degree.. For fuckz sake! In music, there are no "wrong answers". You can theorize till it comes out your earhole's and arseholes, the fact is i gave a valid and workable explanation of modes to a thread starter who gives no indication of music theory level..

Sorry for exploding, I'm having a bad one today...

PLB · Post by **PLB** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:39 pm

another trick with diminished chords...

if you take any of the notes in a diminished chord, raise it a half step and play a chord with the new note as a root, it will resolve, whether you play a major or minor chord....

so if you have a b diminished chord and play any of these afterwards it will resolve:

CM or cm
EbM or ebm
F#M or F#m
AM or am

diminished chords are used alot for this, the tension created from the chord itself is great and the resolve is even greater...

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:43 am

yeah that's cool. that's what was happening in the example i posted, with an F#o7 -> G-7. interesting that you're saying it would also work to go to E, Bb and Db, either major or minor. (right?) I'll have to give that a try!

pulsoc · Post by **pulsoc** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:17 am

I find great results by hitting as many keys as I can as hard as I can.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:58 am

pulsoc wrote:I find great results by hitting as many keys as I can as hard as I can.

I think you'll find that's a demented 9th

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:17 am

Heh, it'll still be a couple of years till i'm up to par on this conversation.
But it's on my list of "things to learn"

One thing i do know though, i learned a lot about chords and scales thanks to Live's MIDI plugins. I literally spent days making all kinds of chords and scales presets. And it pays off big time.
Once you got the right scale, it's so much easier to finish that song that's in your head. At least for a non-trained musician like me...