Paul van Dyk's Ableton Techniques

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:51 pm

hambone1 wrote:IMO DJs DJ.

Musicians play live.

.

you did just leave out the whole area of musician dj's
(make music in the studio, dj in the club)
but your right when they are djing thats what they are doing!!

ConsciousPilot · Post by **ConsciousPilot** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:58 pm

the only difference lies in your mind.

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:28 am

I can't belive that in this day and age,and on this forum especially, we are still trying to define what a DJ is...

I use 2 turntables, a laptop, 2 mixers, and a couple of Midi controllers. I still consider myself a DJ. I could easily get by with 1 laptop and 1 midi controller, and still call myself a DJ.

DJ in this day and age does not mean DISC JOCKEY as far as I'm concerned. DJ'ing to me is MOVING THE CROWD. If that means playing a quality tune from start to end, or if it means cutting loops, mangling them with effects, or if it means producing totally original material from scratch and mixing it with your set - it's all DJ'ing to me.

Be a DJ - move the crowd!

EDIT: Just bought a foot controller - looping turntable scratch sequences live is the shizzle!

Jan Holm · Post by **Jan Holm** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:26 pm

Live, dj, musician, artist, remixer, performer.

Whatever

If it sounds right it is right. If it makes people tick
who cares - other than envy little gear sluts.

What really pisses me of is vinyl jocks scared of new
tech and new possibilities claiming to hold the patent
for what a dj is.

On the other hand they might be right. Disc Jockey as
a word is working discs of vinyl. But they do not have
patent on talent working a crowd. We need a new word
to compete with dj.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:08 pm

and playing live is playing your own creation for people

and like i said i wasn't tring to flame

just pointing some things out

now we have kids jocking with their laptop claiming to be "live"

lieing to the crowd must be something we all learned from GWB

Spaiz · Post by **Spaiz** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:35 pm

Patch wrote:I can't belive that in this day and age,and on this forum especially, we are still trying to define what a DJ is...

I use 2 turntables, a laptop, 2 mixers, and a couple of Midi controllers. I still consider myself a DJ. I could easily get by with 1 laptop and 1 midi controller, and still call myself a DJ.

DJ in this day and age does not mean DISC JOCKEY as far as I'm concerned. DJ'ing to me is MOVING THE CROWD. If that means playing a quality tune from start to end, or if it means cutting loops, mangling them with effects, or if it means producing totally original material from scratch and mixing it with your set - it's all DJ'ing to me.

Be a DJ - move the crowd!

Like your position!

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:39 pm

ryansupak wrote: I have trouble, though, seeing the distinction between "live" and "DJing", especially where something like Ableton is concerned.

...If that's the case, you haven't seen what Quandry can do with Live. Nor Kid Beyond for that matter.

I start with a blank session view. Seriously. Nothing in session view other than EQ4s, gates, utilities and compressors on each channel and a multiband compressor (usually PSP vintagewarmer) on the master out. No clips.

Then, I just jam out things in midi, making phrases on the fly. I essentially record an all midi set on the fly. While I'm doing that, I bounce my tracks and record audio live, and then start warping it / fucking with clip envelopes.

I naturally get insulted when people call me a "DJ". Particularly with Live 5, where a mouth-breathing retard can shit out a seamless "DJ mix" on this software, it's important for actual live performers to differentiate themselves.

Patch wrote:I can't belive that in this day and age,and on this forum especially, we are still trying to define what a DJ is...

DJ'ing to me is MOVING THE CROWD. If that means playing a quality tune from start to end, or if it means cutting loops, mangling them with effects, or if it means producing totally original material from scratch and mixing it with your set - it's all DJ'ing to me.

Be a DJ - move the crowd!

I disagree with you. If you play a series of "quality tune(s) from start to end" and it's autowarped for you and quantized, then what exactly ARE you doing up there?

"DJs" who do this paint guys like me (aspiring live electronic performers / composers) with a very bad brush...

I've heard in the past, "Oh, he just uses Ableton - that's easy". I mean, club-goers and promoters look down their nose at guys like me, thinking that I'm doing nothing more than a human ipod. Well, I've been practicing with Live since version 1, learning to play it like an INSTRUMENT, and I still haven't mastered it in almost 5 years. I'm getting closer, but still not there. Why do they look down their noses like me? Because they don't realize what's involved in what I do - and they don't apprecaite effort.

To legitimize the pin-head who plays "quality tune(s) from start to end", is like calling a guy who owns an art gallery an artist. Sure, he's got a good art collection, and he knows how to hang it on a wall in a tasteful way, but that guy ain't an artist... He hasn't painted shit. Same for the ableton DJ who autowarps and quantizes and triggers other people's whole tracks in a sequence - He's just a gallery owner, showcasing other people's work.

No offence Patch, but it's attitudes like yours that contribute to the continual denigration of the effort I put into my work and the underappreciation of electronic musicians.

customdigi · Post by **customdigi** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:01 am

You sound a little touchy on the subject...I don't think guys like BT are underappreciated, and he is pretty damn visible when it comes to his laptops and his usage of "Live", live.

90 percent of anyone recording anything these days are considered "electronic musicians." Keep doing what you are doing as best as you can, and the recognition will come, if it is warranted -- and maybe if it is not! There is plenty to go around.

-Matt

dpmtl · Post by **dpmtl** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:10 am

Jan Holm wrote:Live, dj, musician, artist, remixer, performer.

Whatever

If it sounds right it is right. If it makes people tick
who cares - other than envy little gear sluts.

What really pisses me of is vinyl jocks scared of new
tech and new possibilities claiming to hold the patent
for what a dj is.

On the other hand they might be right. Disc Jockey as
a word is working discs of vinyl. But they do not have
patent on talent working a crowd. We need a new word
to compete with dj.

abcdj?

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:49 am

M. Bréqs wrote:I naturally get insulted when people call me a "DJ". Particularly with Live 5, where a mouth-breathing retard can shit out a seamless "DJ mix" on this software, it's important for actual live performers to differentiate themselves.

"DJs" who do this paint guys like me (aspiring live electronic performers / composers) with a very bad brush...

...contribute to the continual denigration of the effort I put into my work and the underappreciation of electronic musicians.

word

sorry if i left out importent stuff but i think you hit the point i was trying to make

oh yeah i am a dj

Spaiz · Post by **Spaiz** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:53 am

If you need a word to call Ableton DJ's, so here it is: AJ (aka Ableton Jockey) Simple and half traditional.

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 9:48 am

No offense taken, M. Breqs - I definitely didn't mean to upset anybody... Your post raised a lot of interesting points, and the Artist/gallery owner part got me thinking. I would not, however, call a kid that had learned to warp and play "quality tunes end-to-end" a DJ, any more than I would call a kid that had learned to beat match vinyl a DJ.

That's like calling a kid that can play 3 chords a guitarist...

I really like the way you use live (and it sounds like you really are using it to it's full potential) - sounds like one of your sets (do you call what you do a set, or a performance?) would be diferent each time you performed it... Unless you play complete tunes that you've composed yourself along with the on-the-fly composed stuff.

I disagree with you. If you play a series of "quality tune(s) from start to end" and it's autowarped for you and quantized, then what exactly ARE you doing up there?

If a DJ just did that, how the hell would he move the crowd? I'd be bored of that after 3 or 4 tunes. DJ'ing today is about much, MUCH more than just programming a set/tune selection.

The thing is, people go to clubs to watch DJ's, so if you're performing in clubs, and not live venues, you'll be seen as a DJ by a lot of the crowd. Most of 'em ain't got a clue what goes on up there in the booth/on the stage...

P.S - I do alot of live composing too. The only difference is that I take the sounds from tunes I'll be playing later in my set (drum hits/stabs/loops/vox, etc, etc...)

D'you know what I think the answer is? (Just me. folks, let's not fight!) People should stop taking offense to what they are being called and let their music do the talking... I'd love to hear what people are doing with live - unfortunately there seems to be a lot of "vanilla mixes" (ie - very plain, end-to-end crap) and not to much "crazy live improv." being posted on the net.

No offence Patch, but it's attitudes like yours that contribute to the continual denigration of the effort I put into my work and the underappreciation of electronic musicians.

No offence to you, M. Breqs, but it seems that you think the output from your Live machine is superior to anyone claiming to DJ with it... And it also seems that you think the reason people aren't appreciting what you do is because they know you are using Ableton...

Maybe you just CAN'T move the crowd.

Sorry for the long post.

M. Bréqs · Post by **M. Bréqs** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:18 pm

Patch wrote: Maybe you just CAN'T move the crowd.

Good point... I'll guess I'll have to "put up or shut up". Problem is, it's tough getting a gig where I am when you tell club owners or promoters that you use Ableton. Ableton Live has got a bad reputation in Ottawa / Montreal. In the next couple of days I'll post a live recording of a gig and I'll try to "put my money where my mouth is".

Patch wrote: No offence to you, M. Breqs, but it seems that you think the output from your Live machine is superior to anyone claiming to DJ with it... And it also seems that you think the reason people aren't appreciting what you do is because they know you are using Ableton...

I don't think my OUTPUT is superior, I think my INPUT is superior... By INPUT, I mean effort. Sure, with less effort one can put out a better finished product. Taking a dozen tracks by solid producers and mixing 'em in complimentary keys within Ableton will ALWAYS sound better than what I do. That's the nature of it.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:38 pm

mike holiday wrote:
.. but i think calling a dj set a live set discredits those who really are "live" live

ie kookie scientest, monolake, ect ect

if your jockin' with your laptop don't say you are playing live is all

(not that dj'ing isn't performance art) it is!

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:50 am

The thing people fail to see sometimes, is that live IS NOT a DJ'ing application any more than it is a Live Performance application. Live is a tool. People are gonna use it in different ways - that's the beauty of it. It is the most versatile piece of software I've ever used...