VSTi in Live WITHOUT ReWire !!!

benjamin · Post by **benjamin** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:34 pm

hi

Jorgen Aase, the author of energyXT (a VST "chainer" plugin) has posted a
VST effect that can route an EXTERNAL midi input to a VSTi in energyXT.

I'm currently playing a Live arrangement while playing a Reaktor synth with my midi controller ! . Furthermore, it allows to use an external sequencer (or midi yoke) and route the signal to energyXT within Live.

a big advantage (to me) is that you only need one file to store all the data, since the whole network of VSTi is stored within the song data

Furthermore, Kerrydan from KVR has pointed me to a very simple VST stepsequencer plugin that can sync to host transport/tempo and can be connected to a VSTi in Live (because, currently, the step sequencer within energyXT isn't started and stopped from the host transport, but jorgen has
promised to add this feature).

Little tip : if you want to quickly be able to switch between Live and energyXT (including all its VST/VSTi windows), just make sure that the little tool icon in the Live representation of the energyxt plugin is visible. click on it (which hide only the main energy xt window) then click on Live title bar : this quickly brings Live on top again.

links :

energyXT : http://webmassiva.com/energyXT/ (not free but cheap)
the MIDIXT vst fx that injects midi from external input into energyXT :
http://www.webmassiva.com/energyXT/midiXT.zip

stepchild vst step seq : http://subminimal.org/stepchild/

i know it's a very minimal setup but it's lots of fun and i thought you
could be interested.

hth

Benjamin

siddhu · Post by **siddhu** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:10 pm

Hey Benjamin,

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us.

Siddhu

sixela · Post by **sixela** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:21 pm

is it better than bidule? if so caan you possibly give an idea in what way?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:40 pm

i like the self-contained files, the more "compact" look and feel (difficult to explain) and the fact that i don't get glitches anymore when switching from Live main window to the VSTi windows (and i have a very good soundcard with decent buffer settings and no interrupt sharing)

of course energyxt doesn't have any spectral plugins and is globally less
featured than bidule, but it really feels nicer to me. i don't know it well enough to list pros/cons, but other E-XT users can maybe comment...

i think the best thing is for you to try this setup. you'll then see if it makes you feel like spending 35€

. it did for me.....

Kerrydan · Post by **Kerrydan** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 7:53 pm

One other small drawback with using EnergyXTe to host your VST instruments in Live is there doesn't seem to be an easy way to record the plugin's output.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Live can only record input from the Master Output (aka resampling), soundcard inputs, or ReWire devices, right? Not from one track to another?

I suppose you could get around that using a disk-streaming VST plugin such as TapeIt or ChannelGrabber, but then getting (and looping) the audio back into Live is far less convenient than if a ReWire slave were used.

Has anyone found otherwise?

Curious,
-K

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:20 pm

There is an easy workaround if you use a soundcard with multiple output/ASIO support . In that case you can set everything but the channel[s] to be resampled to a different output than Master.

And than you can resample , while internally the sounds are routed and outputted differently, though you won't hear that ....

Kerrydan · Post by **Kerrydan** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:34 pm

Ah, but actually hearing what you're playing (and recording) is an integral part to actually performing.

Plus, not everyone has a multi-out ASIO soundcard. So while it is a potential work-around for certain users, what you're suggesting isn't ideal for everybody.

-K

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:46 pm

I agree you need a card that supports Asio .. but what +/- serious card doesn't .

As long as you put the other channels not to be resampled to another Asio pair than the one you need resampling, than you can resample from track to track like you want , and depending on the internal routing of your soundcard you should be able to monitor what you're playing .... I don't see the problem ...

Eg. CH 1 carries this vst+midi host -> ASIO put to master
All other Channels are set to ASIO 3/4

Track X is set to master out -IN for resampling which means only CH 1 will get resampled.

However when playing , what you're getting as the audible master out is the combination of ALL Asio Channels while only resampling the channel 1 ... . Well, that's how my 2 i/o soundcard works ...

Kerrydan · Post by **Kerrydan** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:53 pm

Okay.

So I'll grant that it works for users with an ASIO card whose drivers support multiple outputs (virtual or real).

Mine doesn't, though (Edirol UA-20), so I guess I'm just arguing the case for us poor folk.

-K

Jed · Post by **Jed** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:02 pm

Although this is a valid workaround, I think some of the immediacy of being able to record any and any combination of several tracks receiving different rewire channels as inputs is lost with this approach. An ideal scenario, and it is certainly worth pursuing, is one where software functionality is not dependent on the interface.

Its an exciting time for this kind of talk, as we are so close to absolute music creation nirvana with Live (for many its already there) - now for those of us determined to incorporate VSTi's and finally beginning to see different methods manifesting it, we may achieve the dream of ditching our clunky sequencers for good. I would love nothing more than to shrink the now 25% of the time (thanks to Live) I actually use Logic anymore to 0%.

Anyway, great to have options!

Mbazzy · Post by **Mbazzy** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:05 pm

I'm flabbergasted though that a product like the UA-20 doesn't support virtual multiple out though ... ! Couldn't imagine ...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:28 pm

im suprised that my m-audiophile 2496 doesn't, pissed too
thank goodness my echo indigo i/o does. because of this I'm using my laptop more and more over my desktop.

Kerrydan · Post by **Kerrydan** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:32 pm

Mbazzy wrote:I'm flabbergasted though that a product like the UA-20 doesn't support virtual multiple out though ... !

Heh.

I'm not... I wish Edirol would spend less money cranking out a dozen new products for every music trade convention and more money on updating drivers for their existing products. The ASIO drivers for the UA-20 are useable, but they're still at v1.0 and have not been updated once since the product was first released over a year-and-a-half ago.

But enough of that OT stuff - I agree with Jed. Less hassle, more music... nice to have choices in software.
-K

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:49 am

hi Kerrydan

you are totally right ! i feel dumb but i haven't thought about
that issue regarding recording. indeed it's nice not having to solo a
track to record it and, furthermore, recording rewire channels means
recording BEFORE the effects applied, which means you can still automate
them , etc...

thanks for pointing this out !

benjamin · Post by **benjamin** » Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:49 am

the previous post was from me, sorry