[OT] day without immigrants?

[jackmazzotti]

btw jack, I can't figure out whether you're actually a staunch conservative or a troll that likes to anger liberals on the boards. Care to enlighten me as to which side you're on?

what the heck is this pc101?
anything that isn't pc angers the almighty liberals OH NO!
boo hoo hoo

to all the whining pc liberals I have the following advice
go cry yourself a river and sue someone for falling in it

I am on the side with brains that think rationally

xenophobe?
please read something that isn't on the syllabus

obey the laws
learn english
wave an america flag
or go home and protest about your own country

what if I went to mexico and started saying "hey why don't speak english, why don't you fly the america flag everywhere, I know I snuck in here illegally but what does that matter laws are meant to be broken, if fact I want the country and everyone else for the matter to change for ME!, why don't you serve chinese food are you racist or something, whats up with the burritos and tacos"

what about all the people who want to come here legally and obey the laws
what would you tell them
"fools why don't you just sneak in and protest about what america owes you"

the real problem is greedy business that want slave labor
they also are breaking the law and should be fined severely
but I bet they back parties on both sides financially
thats is why most of our politicians are balless wimps

we are on the verge of total collapse as a country

[kramerica]

Dude.....your fucking paranoid. Relax.

[stinky]

It's funny how this country was built on immigration... from the Puritans, to the European waves of immigrants that built New York (and the rest of the industrial revolution), to the Latin Americans that do construction, service industry, and all the shit jobs that "Americans" don't want to do....

The stench of hypocrasy is overwhelming

[dazzer]

Agreed, the level of self-righteous spouting is incredible.

OK, so the Canadian dude actually bothered to learn French but as for the other posters going on about "learn the language if you're here, fly the american flag, blah, blah, blah..."

In my experience most Brits/Americans/Aussies whatevr living in foreign countries make a vague attempt at learning the local language then leave it at that. people generally don't really adapt that much culturally and the only flags they'll be waving are their own, not their host countries (and what gives with having the little maple leaf stitched onto your backpack?)

Most expats living here in Hong Kong manage about 5 words of Cantonese no matter how long they're here, eat in Western(ized) restaurants, live in their own upmarket ghettos. In Spain the language uptake was better but still generally an embarassment...

I'm not saying I'm any better either, just can't stand all the spouting on this thread.

T'interweb, serious stuff indeed. Aye

[njh]

It's funny how this country was built on immigration... from the Puritans, to the European waves of immigrants that built New York (and the rest of the industrial revolution), to the Latin Americans that do construction, service industry, and all the shit jobs that "Americans" don't want to do....

The stench of hypocrasy is overwhelming

like you said this country was built on immigration... many many many years ago... but there is a difrence between people coming to a land that had no form of goverment and illegals jumping fences now.
there was no goverment here before 1776 so it was fine for imagrants to pour in. but now we have a goverment in place, we are now a country. we are not in need of people to establish a country. we have our own laws (including laws on imagration) if people do not want to accept our laws then they should not bother entering our country.
now this does not meen that people born out side of america should never be able to become a citizen .. it meens they have to go about the proper ways to become one (like learning the english language or having a legitimate reason for coming here, not just because they want to get a job to save all there money only to take it back to there home country to boost its economy). if they dont like these simple standards to take in order to be a citizen, then they should look to another goverment to invade.
if it was up to me i would shut the doors on everyone becoming a permanent citizen unless the person is fleing an abusive goverment

[sqook]

btw jack, I can't figure out whether you're actually a staunch conservative or a troll that likes to anger liberals on the boards. Care to enlighten me as to which side you're on?

what the heck is this pc101?
anything that isn't pc angers the almighty liberals OH NO!
boo hoo hoo

to all the whining pc liberals I have the following advice
go cry yourself a river and sue someone for falling in it

Thank you for answering my question.

[continuous]

...must stop posting when drunk... apologies

[noisetonepause]

there was no goverment here before 1776 so it was fine for imagrants to pour in.

Err... didn't most of the immigration happen well after 1776? And you obviously DID have a government before that. It was based in Europe, obviously, but there was still people claiming authority over the land (which they'd rightfully stolen, but that's another debate).

[sqook]

there was no goverment here before 1776 so it was fine for imagrants to pour in.

Err... didn't most of the immigration happen well after 1776? And you obviously DID have a government before that. It was based in Europe, obviously, but there was still people claiming authority over the land (which they'd rightfully stolen, but that's another debate).

This is correct. The majority of it occurred at the beginning of the 20th century. See this wiki chart for more details.

[snowtires]

That argument is bogus but I keep seeing it everywhere. Last time I checked most of our ancestors that came over on the boat didn't check beforehand whether they'd be "legal" or not when they arrived or whether the US hit its immigrant quota that year. Nope. They simply got on that boat and sailed to the new world in hopes of opportunity. And frankly, I'd hope that my ancestors would've sidestepped immigration officers if upon arrival they were told to turn back (I bet yours would have). You really think my great-great grandpa would say "oh sorry to offend your quotas this year, I'll just be getting back on this steamboat and going back to the podunk bullshit country of mine that's being ravaged by world war I, poverty, and disease. But thanks anyways!"

but they DID turn people away. people got here and were told to go home. yeah, there were some who were like 'f that' and snuck in, but sorry, even if an entire boat full of people snuck into america, it is a lot less than the thousands of people who sneak across our borders each day.

where does it say that the majority of illegal immigrants are here because of expired visas? i know of three people who were here on visas, one of them went home after it expired, the other was applying for an extension and the third is my best friend's dad. he's been here for 30+ year but he doesn't want to give up his greek citizenship, so every couple of years (or every year, i forget how it goes), he has to go to the city and fill out forms to extend his visa and, by doing so, he's gotten it extended every year or every five years, for the past 30 years. it's apparently not THAT hard, he's been retired for the past 10 years. you can try to justify their actions or put their plight into perspective, but the law is still the law. you don't go to another country, break the law and then protest the fact that the law exists. but of course, this is america, where people sue because their coffee is too hot.

i also find it absolutely baffling that illegal immigrants can collect welfare. they're not even supposed to be here, yet I'M paying for them to be here? awesome. let's not forget that (according to the wikipedia link that was just posted) the majority of violent crimes in the us are commited by illegal immigrants. good! how dare i have a problem with THAT, right?

that being said, it is a sad thing that people have to sneak into america for work, because their own country is so poorly run that they can't support their families. i said before, i think a good way to curb illegal immigration would be to help strengthen mexico's economy. even so, illegal immigration is a serious problem and it needs to be addressed and we should start by enacting some serious changes in the way business runs in the states. we don't even have to go to india or china to outsource jobs, we're outsourcing in our own country.

a perfect solution to all of our country's problems would be to say that senators and congressmen, all elected officials for that matter, are going to get paid, let's sayyyyy $65k a year. 99% of the time they don't deserve to get paid the change in my car's cupholder and they get the summer off, so what's there to complain about? they certainly don't deserve the $165,000 base salary they're getting now. how is it that WE elect these people, but THEY are the ones who decide how much we pay them?

after a couple of years, the money we save from paying for these idiots could be put towards a number of things - we could help mexico out, cut down on fuel prices by reinvesting the money into crude oil, put it into social security, etc. hell, if we put the money bush pissed away on the war in iraq into oil, we wouldn't be having the problems we're having now. if we gave it to mexico, maybe they could start improving the quality of life in their country. but, we all know this will never happen. it sure would be nice, though. 2008 can't come soon enough. i got a little off topic there, it's early.

[djadonis206]

Some of our (my) ancestors didn't really have a choice whether we were coming here or not - I know a little off topic but since we're on the subject of "along time ago" "immigrants" and "coming here"

all that long time ago shite is kind of pointless at the moment (a good pint though don't get me wrong)

We've evolved as a planet in a lot of ways and the world has gotten like 1 thousand times smaller

now we have airplanes and fast cars plus the internet and wireless telecommunications make just about anything accessible within minutes in the world, it's awesome.

I don't know what I'm talking about - continue your argument

[glu]

there was no goverment here before 1776 so it was fine for imagrants to pour in.

I think the 5 nations count! If only Irioquois and other Native Americans had another 100 years before the Europeans and Colonists took over, they might of had a chance to preserve some of their territory.

"It was fine" to pour in here and spread disease, pillage people who were more or less harmonious with nature in comparison to the neoAmerican footprint?

I don't think the loss of language, culture, history, and relationship with the natural world was "fine." There were millions of humans who died, and America pretends in their history books that it was some noble utilitarian act, not to call it genocide, but it was one of the ways our country was founded and expanded with its manifest destiny mentality.

The truth, America was founded by genocide, so don't shit your pants that the desendants of Spain's failed colonies have realized they actually have a chance of supporting their family in the U.S. as dethorning roses in the their shithole poor town won't suffice. The U.S. screwed Mexico over plenty in terms of land, there is more opportunity in the U.S., so what are we going to expect?

Build a wall? Humans have been building walls for thousands of years. Don't you think it's time we destroy the walls and realize we are all the same fucking species?

[djshiva]

they apper to have little to no interest in assimilating

or learning english

America is nothing more than a job market to these people

they are all waving Mexican and Dominican republic flags

go back there if its so great

otherwise learn the language and culture of the country your in
(guess what if i move to another country I will learn their language.. its something called respect)

my great grandparents did

funny how its on commie day
sorry i meant may day



Jack

where to start with this one.

first question: how many languages do you speak?

second: commie day? the labor movement in this country and many others is one of the reasons that we have a weekend and an 8 hour workday. granted labor has been gutted by stupid choices from some labor leaders and aggressive anti-labor laws like the "right to work" laws, but you would do well to read the history of labor and understand how much we all have to thank the labor movement for.

mad props to the haymarket 5!

third: funny that it's on mayday? more like intentional, i would imagine...

read. a. book.

unless you are native american, you ARE an immigrant.

[noisetonepause]

there was no goverment here before 1776 so it was fine for imagrants to pour in.

I think the 5 nations count! If only Irioquois and other Native Americans had another 100 years before the Europeans and Colonists took over, they might of had a chance to preserve some of their territory.

"It was fine" to pour in here and spread disease, pillage people who were more or less harmonious with nature in comparison to the neoAmerican footprint?

I don't think the loss of language, culture, history, and relationship with the natural world was "fine." There were millions of humans who died, and America pretends in their history books that it was some noble utilitarian act, not to call it genocide, but it was one of the ways our country was founded and expanded with its manifest destiny mentality.

The truth, America was founded by genocide, so don't shit your pants that the desendants of Spain's failed colonies have realized they actually have a chance of supporting their family in the U.S. as dethorning roses in the their shithole poor town won't suffice. The U.S. screwed Mexico over plenty in terms of land, there is more opportunity in the U.S., so what are we going to expect?

Build a wall? Humans have been building walls for thousands of years. Don't you think it's time we destroy the walls and realize we are all the same fucking species?

Thank you.

[snowtires]

been building walls for thousands of years. Don't you think it's time we destroy the walls and realize we are all the same fucking species?

that's very noble. unfortunately it has very little to do with the topic at hand. no one is saying immigrants are some kind of sub-humans, this isn't the neo-nazi forum, they're saying that illegal immigrants are breaking the laws of our country just by being here. and don't even say 'well get rid of the laws, man, we're all the same species.' without law, there would be chaos, because it's human nature to exploit whatever you can, whenever the opportunity arises, as is being shown on both sides of the illegal immigration argument.

immigrants are exploiting our country's nature of freedom and giving handouts to people who can't take care of themselves, while employers are exploiting the workers with cheap wages. but make no mistake, illegal immigrants are not victims - they abuse the system just as much, if not more than the people who employ them.

what other country in the world would give non-citizen residents a monthly stipend, on top of whatever they were making under the table? none. and, i'm sorry, but there are enough americans abusing the welfare system as it is, i don't want to be paying for them AND people who aren't even supposed to be here.