Very OT, 9/11

Heironymous · Post by **Heironymous** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:08 am

Islam is a religion of peace right? Tell that to Theo Van Gogh.

Are any of you NOT communists or socialists? I often forget that the majority of this forum is non-American and leans extreme left.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:46 am

Heironymous wrote:Islam is a religion of peace right? Tell that to Theo Van Gogh.

Are any of you NOT communists or socialists? I often forget that the majority of this forum is non-American and leans extreme left.

You also forget your brain when you left the womb. NEXT!

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:46 am

why you using a different nick to say these things >?

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:11 am

b0unce wrote:why you using a different nick to say these things >?

Me? Him? Her? Them?

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Thu May 11, 2006 1:15 am

heironymous

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Thu May 11, 2006 2:34 am

b0unce wrote:heironymous

I think he meant "erroneous".

Yep, we're all just a bunch of left-wing muslim lovers.
...'cuz free-enterprise capitalism sucks! That crazy unmonopolized competitive marketplace in the U.S. is bad for you! What we need is the strong leadership of Big government. A highly centralized and subsidized economy, perhaps run by some sort of central financial reserve like in Amer.. oh wait. nevermind.

grb

Spikee · Post by **Spikee** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:46 am

Heironymous wrote:Jesus, some of you are truly bat shit insane.

Did you know that most people that are insane actually believe that everyone else around them is insane and that they're the only ones that are sane?

Can I get you another Red Bull?

Bush, Saddam, what's the differance??!?! Good lord you people are dim!!! News flash....WAKE THE FUCK UP PEOPLE!! Radical islam is trying to KILL YOU, yes YOU!!! Not just us Americans but ALL OF THE WEST!
Do you think radical islam gives a shit about your views on the world? Do you think they will spare sawing your head off with a rusty knife because you think "everyone wants to just get along"?!?!? Well guess what, hell no they wont! You will be dead like everyone else!! You guys are so clueless that you project your simple peacefull sitting around the campfire view of life onto the world and I hate to break it to you but the world is a nasty place my friends. Yes, politicians are on the take, yes people are assassinated, yes innocent people do die, life is as they say, a BITCH.

Well, you just said it. Radical Islam. I have a couple of friends that are "Western Islam". They try to get along. They work, socialize, tend to their houses and do laundry just like I do (I consider myself a non-conformist spiritualite). And when we hang out, often times my friends Josh and Tamara are with us and they are Jewish -- imagine that.

First off, the problem with Islam on the whole is that it states in the Qu'Ran that if one needs to step away from the tenets of Islam due to noble needs then one can. And since it is up to the person of faith to decide what those needs are, that's where the catch ends up forming.

The problem is affluence, as in, there's very little of it in the Middle East. Islam has provisions in it for govermental construction and all of these Islamic countries that you see out there, if one person that holds most of the power and then there's "everyone else" -- that's pretty in-tune to the idea. But with poverty running rampant and all, that's where you get these extremist ideologies, all backed up by the convenience of a theology that doesn't demand that you hold firm to any one of their hadiths. And because of the notion of martyrdom, when you marry of nobility of martyrdom with the ability to cast aside Islamic hadiths, not to mention an utter contempt of living an impoverish life in the Middle East, you have trouble, and lots of it. At least Christianity, Judaism, et cetera... tells you that "If you work on the Sabbath, you're an asshole. If you eat shellfish (Leviticus), you're an asshole"... and demands that you follow those beliefs.

If you think western governments are terrible than you obviously no NOTHING about third world governments and you CLEARLY have no understanding of our current enemies such as Iran, N. Korea, Russia, China etc.

Well, the above took care of most of this. But care to tell me what Russia's done to us lately? Or is right now the proper time for me to start laughing, pointing and shaking my head at you, that you're so silly as to think that you can counter extremism with extremism?

If terrorists succeed in hitting multiple cities with nukes it could be the end of western culture as we know it and say goodbye to the life you now know. No more smoking dope and playing with ableton folks..it will be like katrina's aftermath times a hundred.

Well... I applaud you for know what happens when nukes fly. The same could happen if Americans started throwing nukes. And for as much as I'd miss Ableton, I don't smoke pot. And I'm sure that you've got a straight-edge tatoo yourself... nicely hidden under your swastika armband.

This statement is great:
"Oh and small detail of there being NO PROOF what so ever that the hijackers were linked to al queda, that they were islamic or even who they were. Funny that quite a few of them are still alive right now"

First off, learn to spell Al Qaeda correctly, but that is just nitpicking eh? Now, you assert there is no proof what so ever that the hijackers were "linked" to islamic terror groups? The rest of your statement makes little to no sense. What planet do you live on sir? We know who every last terrorist was on ALL of the planes that were hijacked, have you been hiding in your cave for a bit too long perhaps??

Someone should bitch slap you indeed.

So you missed the television interview of one of the hijackers who is currently a pilot for a Saudi Arabian airliner? Bummer. You know, I feel you pain... why actually go check your facts when you can just spout off anyways? And since you don't like to check facts and do research, let me help you here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle ... 559151.stm

Oh and for what it's worth, your insults are nothing more than a cry for help from an angry, adolescent mental state that is making a last-ditch effort as to not look silly on a message forum that could disappear tomorrow and aside from ceasing to be a good resource of info for Ableton, wouldn't affect you in any dramatic way, shape or form. No matter if you win some insignificant battle on this forum, you are still going to lose because instead of acting like a scholar you're acting like a loser.

As I have always said, it is of little fucking importance what any of you think is REALLY going on in the world because the world goes on without you. Regardless of what hairbrained ideas you may have about the world the fact remains...we(the western world) are at war with islam and there are only two ways it can end in our enemies eyes:
1. Everyone must convert to islam
OR
2. ALL infidels must die.

Not we're not. We're not at war with Islam, period. We are at war with the people that bastardize the religion because of their will to conveniently bend the rules of their faith to their liking. The only thing that's Islamic about the terrorists we seek to subdue is the fact that they praise Allah before pulling a trigger and detonating a bomb. The pure word of Islam, unadulterated and not strayed from, will always support peace and unity, and never condone what you (once again, in an unsupported fashion) incorrectly claim.

And since, like affore-mentioned, you have no desire to qualify your beliefs, allow me to help you out with these links here:

http://www.submission.org/jihad/replies2.html (covers tolerance towards other religions, from an Islamic point of view)

http://63.175.194.25/index.php?ln=eng&d ... 1406&dgn=4 (about killing non-Muslims)

The above link inparticular is relatively important in understanding the Al Qaeda hatred of the Western World. In case you're not aware, the CIA trained OBL in the 80's to help Russia with their attacks on Afghanistan, a largely Islamic country. Go figure that when OBL had his attack of conscience that he would view all Muslims to be at never-ending war with the U.S.

http://islam-usa.com/25ques.html#19 (An explanation on if Islam promotes violence and terrorism)

Don't like those links? Well let me inform you then that I pulled the first 3 links that came up on Yahoo after doing searches on: "Islam and non-believers" and "Questions about Islam". If you prefer something more credible, perhaps you'll find it further down the list, like entry #8 or something on one of those searches.

So...with those two lovely choices...I choose killing all of our enemy. Seems pretty simple doesn't it?

No, because simple is actually the complex way to go. The answer is A.) a change of presidency, B.) pulling our military out of the Middle East and C.) funding programs that pump positive money into the Middle East that makes it to the citizens (and NO, NOT Food-For-Oil!

) and D.) quasi-isolationism until the storm blows over. Oh yeah, and E.) dropping all support of Israel -- they believe that they have been exlied from their land anyways.

Anyone have a tinfoil hat I can borrow so I can make up my own conspiracy??

No, but I've got a pen and paper to send you, it'd be nice if you took notes when you actually decided to educate yourself on the real dealings happening, just for good measure.

Well I for one am going to do everything I can within my limited power as a citizen to stop my culture and country from being destroyed so I have the freedom to make music. Go ahead and fire up your bong and stick your head back in the sand...maybe it will all just go away right?

So that means you're going to write a letter to your congressman explaining to him that as his constituent that you oppose the military activities in the Middle East and call for dialogue with Iran?

As a side note...I see there is another MASSIVE poltical fueled thread already...what is wrong with this forum?? Isn't there better places to discuss this sort of stuff than on the damn ABLETON board???

No, there's not. People here can either talk to their small and generally local groups and aquaintances, or they can go to a forum that is multi-cultural and has thousands of participants. And they can talk, discuss their views and learn something. Whether or not it's been the current office's actual plan to create rifts by dropping stuff like "They hate us for our freedom! youre either with us or against us!", well that's what has happened by our actions.

I applaud the efforts of those who come together and engage in constructive conversation about world affairs, not so they can win an arguement but so they can better get to know the world, its people and what they're thinking. Much unlike yourself. And I'd like to say as well that I'm a proud American, outspoken and I shuffle my feet when I can because that's what being a patriot is about.

Well, I've undressed you enough for the evening. I will pray for you before I go to bed tonight. Have a nice day...

forgie · Post by **forgie** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:11 am

I'm not a fucking communist. I'm not a fucking socialist. I believe in some socialist principles.

What I AM is a god damn realist. i.e. I like to see the world for what it is. Not what I'd like it to be.

When I was in college (on campus accommodation at university), we had 2 or 3 US exchange students. They were all baffled at how the rest of the world is so "left wing". One girl was astonished and amazed that we had such little respect for our politicians. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!? This was coming from a country where the president can't even construct a fucking sentence!

She was amazed that at university, we get taught about things that our government and army have done in the past, good AND bad. That's called truth, people. That's called education. That's REAL LIFE. She was amazed that we are taught about how our government has lied to us over and over in the past 50 years... do you people in the US not get taught that sort of shit if you study at university? What do you get taught? Patriotism 101? Patriotism is just as blind an idea as communism is. If you subscribe to that, you're only circumstances away from being in the red army.

Spikee · Post by **Spikee** » Thu May 11, 2006 5:21 am

forgie wrote:I'm not a fucking communist. I'm not a fucking socialist. I believe in some socialist principles.

What I AM is a god damn realist. i.e. I like to see the world for what it is. Not what I'd like it to be.

When I was in college (on campus accommodation at university), we had 2 or 3 US exchange students. They were all baffled at how the rest of the world is so "left wing". One girl was astonished and amazed that we had such little respect for our politicians. WHAT THE FUCK?!?!? This was coming from a country where the president can't even construct a fucking sentence!

She was amazed that at university, we get taught about things that our government and army have done in the past, good AND bad. That's called truth, people. That's called education. That's REAL LIFE.

Yeah, that's what American Democracy spawns these days, lol... THANK GOD I've never been satisfied with just taking the first snippet of rhetoric spoonfed to me. I've always had to read and read and read, and check things for myself.

Other than that, what the fuck does Communism or Socialism have to do with this conversation in the first place? Neither political ideology's core beliefs have anything to do with gravitating towards questioning authority, seeing better than you hear (in the case of the 9/11 "conspiracy" theories!) or any swag like that.

I think we should just make it a point to completely ignore HiImAMoronious if he's talking politics. I mean, unless you're a Cincinnati Bengals fan, drinking the Kool-Aid and blindly trusting your leader is something you should NEVER do.

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:44 am

Heironymous wrote:Are any of you NOT communists or socialists? I often forget that the majority of this forum is non-American and leans extreme left.

of course because everyone must fit in a box right? How about the idea that some of us do not fit under any label and that we think for ourselves rather than moulding our beliefs around a certain catagory where someone tells you how to think & see the world.

Heironymous · Post by **Heironymous** » Fri May 12, 2006 7:45 am

If any of you are interested in reality and facts rather than looney theories and BS:

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:32 am

Heironymous wrote:If any of you are interested in reality and facts rather than looney theories and BS:

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/

if you're interested in reality why did NORAD stand down? Pentagon officials have publically stated they knew the plane was approaching from at least 60 miles away and were kept informed of the progress every 10 miles...so weren't any jets scrambled? Rumsfeld was in a meeting on the other side of the building...you're telling me after 4 planes had been hijacked, every aircraft grounded, and no one thought of telling the Secretary of Defense? He is on record for stating that he didnt know anything about it until it hit.

Also what about the reality of what has come out of the horse's mouth, i mean Bush's...he has said MORE THAN ONCE that he watched the first plane hit the towers (not to mention the photo of him watching it). Now thats quite interesting as it didnt go out live anywhere.

Spikee · Post by **Spikee** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:20 pm

Heironymous wrote:If any of you are interested in reality and facts rather than looney theories and BS:

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/

First off -- there's an old saying that "I see better than I hear". Although there could've been numerous explanations for what happened in NYC on 9/11, the problem is that virtually all of the evidence, as in, the debris from the buildings collapsing has been eradicated. When the space shuttle Columbia went down in 2003 they took each piece that they could find, stored it in a warehouse and even laid out the scraps in order as to corraborate them with their location on the shuttle. And what have we done with the WTC debris? Within 3-4 months we were already melting down the metal and pulverizing the rock. This makes both a conspiracy theory AND the theories on the site you've provided basically unprovable, because the evidence was destroyed. And quite frankly, some charges should be rendered out for tampering with evidence. But since there's no debris and as such, no way to look for clues of premeditated tampering, you're just going to have to accept that there are always going to be numerous questions left for people to marvel over.

And that page doesn't explain what happened at the Pentagon, and why there was only a 15' X 25' crater in PA, and parts were found as far as A MILE away from the PA crash site in Shanksville.

And three, I typed you a whole huge thing concerning Islam a couple of posts back and this is all that you can muster? It kind of makes me wish that I hadn't typed so much but then again it was my goal with that post to shut your ass up, so I guess I did a good job...

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:25 pm

Spikee wrote:parts were found as far as A MILE away from the PA crash site in Shanksville.

i think it was quite a bit further than a mile away

Heironymous · Post by **Heironymous** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:26 pm

You didn't shut anyone up. It is just pointless to debate with you guys. Frankly I could care less what your opinion is anyway. I just like to rile some of you up to get the predictable response. After reading your blathering about islam and reading your thoughts on 9/11 I see no point in wasting more time with you. I certainly wouldn't spend any time debating anyone in person on something as idiotic as this, so I really shouldn't waste any more time online when I should be doing something more productive. So, with that, you can all go back to back slapping each other about how deep you all are and how you truly understand the problems of the world. If only we could all just get along...