Warping Way Off

highmarcs · Post by **highmarcs** » Tue May 09, 2006 6:24 am

Well, apparently it isn't, since it doesn't work.

All I'm saying is, take a gander at some Live 5 videos warping Tutorials (Ask Video, Csi Master, VTC.com etc). They all say take the clip, and in the clip window, put in the BPM of the clip, then hit warp. I do this and the markers don't line up with the transients. They say if the markers don't line up, move them. I do this and then the number in the little BPM window changes from like 125 to 94 (always something crazy like that).
So then I go and put the correct tempo back in the little BPM window, it then changes all or some of my warp markers. And sometimes one marker moves and other times all the markers move, and other times, all the markers from a certain mark move, and other times it greys out a portion of my clip?

I've easily spent over $300.00 on books, training cd-roms and dvd's and magazines, ALL on Live 5. The latest one, "Ableton Live 5 Tips and Tricks" by Martin Delaney, and guess what monumental things it has "taught" me about warping, that Live has several differerent warp modes and that Auto warp "gets it right most of the time". I still can't even sync two simple clips. That's rediculous! I did better work on Live 4 and all I ever read was the manual.

Note, I'm using accoustically recorded stuff, not perfectly quantized midi/techno stuff. Perhaps thats my problem.

Fledz · Post by **Fledz** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:44 am

Actually I noticed what you mean. I'm thinking of buying Live 6 when it comes out and was just browsing this forum to see if there is any info on Live 6 when I came across this.

I fiddled around with the Demo if Live 4 and when I warped something it was fine.

But when I tried the Demo of Live 5 the exact same clip was way off and took ages to warp properly. It still didn't sound 100% right either once I thought I was finished.

Seems strange that a newer version would be worse at something

Anyway, I just signed up to back up this story and state that I noticed it too. Should be seeing you guys on this forum in a few months when Live 6 arrives

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:43 am

highmarcs wrote:I've easily spent over $300.00 on books, training cd-roms and dvd's and magazines, ALL on Live 5.
...
Note, I'm using accoustically recorded stuff, not perfectly quantized midi/techno stuff. Perhaps thats my problem.

I really don't think the program material is the problem here. Also, what has changed for you since Live 4? Why not simply work like you did back then? Personally I *never* adjust the bpm window, I *never* auto-warp, and I *always* work visually, first and foremost. If it looks okay, it usually sounds okay, and I'm getting great results.

My way of warping hasn't changed since Live 4, nor have the results, so I'm curious as to what transpired in the 4-5 upgrade to change your workflow so much.

Regards,
Andreas

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Tue May 09, 2006 9:52 pm

The reason there's so many ways to warp is that Ableton's opened the process up so you can adapt it to the style of music you like & the needs of the individual file. The main thing is just to understand the logic behind warping. All the new options that came along in 5 are really just like new handles for the same machine.

In a mature piece of software like Photoshop or Final Cut, there's usually at least 3 different ways to do accomplish anything. Photoshop is the best example--you can have a process completely different from someone else and wind up with exactly the same result. The important thing is not to get bogged down in the details.

Even though you don't normally do "midi/techno," give these techniques a shot with some cleanly sequenced loops. Once you see it working, then branch out into live recordings. Live music can be much harder to warp, sometimes infuriatingly so.

And just to be obvious, be sure global quantize is set to "1 bar" & clip quantize is set to "global."

highmarcs · Post by **highmarcs** » Wed May 10, 2006 8:54 am

Good News!

Guess what folks. Just for kicks. I tried some of the advice about ignoring the waveform in the clip window. All I did was turn auto warp off, dragged in two different loops of two different tempos onto two different tracks, hit warp and I recieved my best results to date. That's it.

When I peaked at the clips in the clip window, the markers are not at the transients, they were all off, so I don't know why it works better.

I've just been trying so hard to do everything by the book and it's just screwed me up every time.

I can't help it. I was sent to Catholic school. I feel robotically compelled to follow instructions whether they mean anything, work at all, or produce anything positive or not.

Why is it working better when I disregard the warp markers? All the texts' say they should be all lined up neatly on the transients. Why is it now seemingly working well with the absence of such attention to the markers? This will haunt me all night!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:49 am

Excellent!

To me, it doesn't matter what the waveform looks like. It's not a video program. It's what it sounds like that matters.

I can actually concentrate better on audio with my eyes closed. Taking away the visual stimulus heightens your other senses (Stevie Wonder mode). And once you set up your MIDI controller with midiStroke/Autohotkeys/whatever and memorize the controls, you rarely even need to see the screen.

Lord Kahn · Post by **Lord Kahn** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:58 am

highmarcs wrote:Why is it working better when I disregard the warp markers? All the texts' say they should be all lined up neatly on the transients. Why is it now seemingly working well with the absence of such attention to the markers? This will haunt me all night!

I guess it's a case of two wrongs making a right. If both warppings are off by the same amount, then it's the same as both being properly on the beat.

Pepehouse · Post by **Pepehouse** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:48 pm

Everything of this sounds weird to me, I´m new to Ableton and I warp my tracks in 20 seconds while I´m mixing them setting just two warp markers, I must agree that some people just don't understand the logic of warping and even the logic of beatmatching, on my invoice is a lot easier with Live 5 just use the "warp from here" command.

filotti · Post by **filotti** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:31 pm

I didn't have much trouble with warping, but as soon as I started doing it I realized that there is a big difference with music from a digital medium, like a promo cd or an mp3 bought from beatport, and a vinyl rip.

With vinyl rips, it's not enough if you set a marker at the beggining and another one at the end, you have to create lots of markers in the middle too, to correct the variations introduced by the turntable.

But this was taking me too long, and making me dizzy too, with the zooming in and zooming out to place some markers. So I devised this method that helped me gain a lot of speed in warping songs, and I made a little flash video to show it to you in case it may help anyone. It requires flash player version 8.

What I'm doing in the video, after I select the loop indicator and it turns black, is pressing the up and down arrows on the keyboard to navigate the whole song.

Here's the link to the video:
http://cablemodem.fibertel.com.ar/filotti/warp.swf

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:34 pm

Very nice technique using the loop to jump the visibility to the next portion.

Pepehouse · Post by **Pepehouse** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:25 pm

That's what Ableton's djing tutorial recommends, nothing new, that's what I use for those "hard to warp" tracks, I don't have problems with vinyl rips I warp them the same just two warp markers, what kind of turntable are you using for ripping? a belt drive one maybe?

filotti · Post by **filotti** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:17 am

Actually, I didn't see any mention of that method on the lessons, and most of the djs I saw warping do the zoom out/zoom in thing which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Durgal · Post by **Durgal** » Fri May 12, 2006 4:44 pm

Its not Ableton that has the problem - its either the track or the process people use!

Pepehouse · Post by **Pepehouse** » Sat May 13, 2006 12:48 am

filotti wrote:Actually, I didn't see any mention of that method on the lessons, and most of the djs I saw warping do the zoom out/zoom in thing which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Is not on the lessons it's here:

DJing with Live 3: Fifty Turntables and a Microphone

Those that are complaining about warping should read this first.

highmarcs · Post by **highmarcs** » Sat May 13, 2006 7:25 am

This post has evolved into Live lovers defending Abletons' honor. Not downing that. Just thought is was amusing.