LIVE 5.2- CPU SPIKES and AUDIO GLITCHES STILL PRESENT

evoid · Post by **evoid** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:08 am

ok, kind of sorted things out

first, just to clarify things:

my live set on the intel macbook has no vst or AU's effects or instruments, because ther are very few usable yet for intel architecture

the midi tracks i'm using are for controling the patches on a nord modular, receving the midi signal from a mercurial stc-1000, and sending triggers to the video artist that works with me

what i have done to get the thing running smooth:

converted all my samples to .wav 44khz 16bits, some to mono (the ones that only needed one channel).

my set did have a lot of different sample rates and bit depth, even some mp3 sources..

i'm happy now, running the set from my internal drive, no problems

oddtones001 · Post by **oddtones001** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:08 am

I needed a flexible DAW for recording audio for tracking acoustic instruments and one that supports vst plugs and soft synths without a whole lot of bullshit. Live 4 was the shit. I loved Live. i still do. If 5 would only perform as advertised. Now I've got a brand new Intel Mac and I'm not going back to the old ass G4 just to use Live 4. I should be able to record 8 tracks at 24bit, 96k with no problems as well as run a couple of MIDI tracks with Impulse and Operator but that is a bit much to ask. Did they not advertise 32-bit,192k unlimited? Some of the DJ guys were reducing the bit depths of .aiff files to get thing this to run. Am i missing something here? Why should they have to do that? I really feel for those guys who have had disasters in front of their audiences. I actually quit using Pro Tools as my main DAW when I first got Live. In order for me to pay for 6, it would have to be for a serious discount and the shit better run like a fucking champ because 5 sure as hell didn't deliver. Well i have some projects coming up that require something stable that doesn't devour CPU cycles and allows multiple audio tracks and soft synths and by George I thinks I've found it.......Logic. I think I will upgrade to Logic Pro in the near future. My only bitch is that it (Express) doesn't support Rewire yet even though Apple says it does. That aint shit if that's the only immediate problem that I can find. The Propellerheads will no doubt fix this shortly. I still want to use Live. It allows a very smooth work flow when it is working properly but this has got to be the buggiest piece of shit I've ever encountered. Brilliant concept, I'll go one further and say it is pure fucking unadulterated genius. We've found all of the bugs, JUST FIX THE SON OF A BITCH, WE'VE PAID FOR IT!!!

Love,

Todd

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Fri May 12, 2006 8:54 am

True...oddtones001
Ableton I want a serious discount on Live 6 (Make it happen, give it to me for my work bugtesting), or at least an apology for shafting us.
I have spent so much time finding bugs in this software and reporting them with as much detail as possible in an effort to help ableton. Its so disheartening to hear that the problems are here to stay and will get fixed only once I pay for another version.
For me and my studio engineer this was bad news and as for abletons attitude. We had bought Live 5 the day it was released and felt ableton had an obligation to provide a program which worked on the systems as advertised.
For me its sad because Live 6 isn't an option. I will have to save £2000 for a new Core Duo machine in order to upgrade next. Obviously this is the future I understand that...They should have been able to fix the serious problems with Live 5 as other companies do free of charge.

oddtones001 · Post by **oddtones001** » Fri May 12, 2006 2:35 pm

kinetic,
You and several others have spent a ridiculous amout of time and energy on bugtesting. Every time I experienced a flaw, you guys had already found it and reported it in great detail. You guys are definitely the ones who should get the next version not for a discount but for free. I would settle for a discount. You may as well have been employed by Abelton. Don't get me wrong. I still think Live is a great idea, and Abelton is a good company with a lot of potential for the future. i haven't given up totally just yet, however, if they continue on their current trend they will lose me as well as countless others who have supported them and their products over the years. I have pushed Live on several people who wanted to switch over to a computer based DAW from their Korg D16 or their Roland VS units. I can no longer advise anyone to do this with the current state of this program. Live is/was much more than a DJ tool, I don't mean that as a jab because I totally dig and respect the whole DJ artform. It was a tool that we could all use to tap into our creativity and as a complete production solution no matter what side of the fence you come from. It really makes me sad to see such great thing get so fucked up. I'm doing stuff for local internet TV, I have a shot at some things for local TV in the not too distant future, and the possibility of some things on a national level. I cant count on Live to deliver in its current condition. Now I'm just holding my breath, patiently awaiting a sycophantic ass ream.

Sincerely,

Todd Jones

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:05 pm

Todd
Thank you man,
Its real nice of you to say that..respect mate
And I honestly don't mind bugtesting these programs (If its going to help people like yourselves, ableton, and my music). If ableton need me I am here for them and willing to help/work.
We are in the studio pretty much everyday (I just used to keep a pad and paper handy and make notes as we came across problems) and naturally the chances of picking up on them are higher when you are using Live constantly.
But I am really disheartened now as well...
Performance optimizations as well as general polishing and ironing out of problems is what I would have liked to see ableton give us back in return. Sadly I am convinced this project of theirs (Version5) was abandoned pretty much as soon as it had been released.
As for DJ tool, I've got decks and I only use live to make tunes/sounds and its the decks I use if I wanna mix records. (It says Lives a complete DAW on the box)
Anyway, I hear where you are coming from totally. We can't count on Live to deliver in its current condition either right now and I wouldn't dare use it live. Lets hope ableton hear us too (Alex is a star...I cannot praise him highly enough for his efforts and help. But theres just too much work for him to do on his own)
Take Care Bro

Chip Tronic · Post by **Chip Tronic** » Sat May 13, 2006 8:44 am

I only experienced problems with live when i used a motu 828 mk 2.
I also expreienced these problems ( spikes etc ) with other software.

Since i changed my audio interface LIVE works very smooth.

SO dont blame ableton for the spikes!

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Sun May 14, 2006 4:03 pm

ChipTronic
I don't believe you...
Bye Bye

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Sun May 14, 2006 4:09 pm

kineticUk wrote:ChipTronic
I don't believe you...
Bye Bye

thats kind of rude.

buy anyway.

kiticuker,
are you using the MBox with Live, and getting the spikes and problems?

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sun May 14, 2006 5:27 pm

also strange because i use the motu 828mkII as well and don't have any spikes.

the motu does use a bit of already scarce cpu, but other than that i have no complaints.

.lm.

Chip Tronic · Post by **Chip Tronic** » Sun May 14, 2006 6:07 pm

well usually i get spikes when i have a too low buffer size and use too much plugins at once.

but as for live and its freezing problems:
when you change a lot of samples in a live situation , i e load stuff , delete it from the session view, select new samples and play them i think this causesd also some of my live freezing problems.

as for the MOTU 828 MK2 i experienced dropouts and a high noise when using it with live 4.1 and of course the session view was paralyzed.

evoid · Post by **evoid** » Sun May 14, 2006 6:09 pm

now i'm kinda of lost..

did 2 gigs this weekend, the first all went well, no spikes, no delays launching scenes, everthing good. even abused Live with a jam session in the end where i kept putting new midi tracks with lots of instruments, and everything fine..

the second one, the set was exactly the same, and i got delays when lauching scenes, witch is very annoying, because it ruins the build up of the music! WTF... i can't find a reason for this...

markaugust · Post by **markaugust** » Sun May 14, 2006 11:15 pm

It seems with me that it is kinda getting worse through time...
seems so much worse then 3 weeks ago.
can't explain it; but really don't know what to do here!!
seems even that one of those betas was even better then this version.
now my cpu meter says 35 % but still get pops and crackles with buffer set to 1024!
(dell 9300 pentium M 2,26 ghz -digi 002; so hardware really is not the issue, I think)
sometimes spikes and stuttering to 2000 %, sometimes same set works fine for hours; sometimes it does not seem to work before I set the buffer to 2048 ... the same freakin set...(!)
it all seems so random, and so unbelievably dangerous for when going live, (which will be very soon for me) that i am freaking out.
I really would not mind to be able to download an older version of 5 with someone, to see if it is this bad (i think the previous version was better, but i deleted it)
anyone?

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:03 am

First I wanna say sorry to Chiptronic for being a dick. I was reacting to the "SO don't blame ableton" comment.
But.. NO let me blame ableton.My other shit works and I have different setups in the studio to test the program on (I make tunes with other people too who use their own computers).
I don't think the problems are caused by Motu but by Live.
Why?, because people here are not all using the same hardware.
AdamJay...it was kinda rude what I said.
But I think you are kinda rude too ... I don't think telling people to get more ram or buy new computers is good support (Something I noticed you do all the time btw. It has to be said by me cause no-one else is going to. I am rude like that). Actually I think thats crap support and the reason why I don't want your support at all cheers.
Mark..I don't think going back to a previous version is a good idea cause they are shit as fuck. There are problems with 5.2 which need to be addressed but its not as bad as it was (For me) using 5.0.Shite. The main problems with 5.2 are, I get the occasional spikes/glitched audio with this version (Just for a second sometimes though), the clips don't fire in time (Big problem happens alot, so no playing live) and the Gui is very unresponsive and slow. Performance is poor and the program seems to be a hog compared to other DAWs but maybe this is the price of warped audio.
I would not play live with Live 5 until it is sorted (If it gets sorted at all).
Have a nice day

AdamJay · Post by **AdamJay** » Mon May 15, 2006 4:58 am

kineticUk wrote: AdamJay...it was kinda rude what I said.
But I think you are kinda rude too ... I don't think telling people to get more ram or buy new computers is good support (Something I noticed you do all the time btw. It has to be said by me cause no-one else is going to. I am rude like that). Actually I think thats crap support and the reason why I don't want your support at all cheers.

I'd think it would be smart to want help from someone who has a completely stable system. Especially if they are offering it. And most especially when they speak from experience, which i always do.

The reason it is smart to add more RAM to a 3 year old computer is because often times when problems arise, its running 3 month old software. Do you see the connection? You can't run Final Cut Pro on a G3. And i would not advise anyone run Live, and most especially version FIVE, with under 1GB of ram, preferably more.

Anyways, i asked if you are using the MBOX because you list the MBOX in your sig as your interface. So i can only assume this is your primary interface, and if that is the case no wonder you have instability running Live.
Digidesigns core audio drivers are the absolute least robust in the entire industry. Look into getting an interface with stable/robust/reliable Core Audio drivers. RME and Metric Halo have never done me wrong, and you'd be hard pressed to find someone without glowing things to say about their drivers.

Hope this helps, but i am sure that even if it does, you'll find something to bitch and moan about.

tah-tah!

tonetripper · Post by **tonetripper** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:37 am

Actually I find that in the audio world, whether professional or consumer, more ram is better. Telling someone to consider buying more ram is somewhat hearsay imho. Especially in Apple. Even in PC land you need a good amount of ram to make things run more stable and smooth. For me being a new mac owner I notice how much ram is needed just to run OSX. It seems more ram intensive than XP Pro.

On the contrary mbox is a good unit, but seems to be only good with more apple proprietary software. That is also due to the core audio aspect of OSX. I have found that the cheap and stable solution is to go with m-audio stuff. I have three seperate a-d converters (24/96, 1010, and the FW 1814) and all have tested well. Pre-amps are not the greatest, but if you have something ahead of the input stage they are wonderfully stable without being exhorbitantly priced and can be cross-platformed as they seem to update their drivers fairly regularly. Also protools has recognized them as a good solution into merging the consumer market with the professional one.

Incidentally Adam Jay how has your puter held up since the .kext fix? I've been looking for updates on that thread, but have been unable to find it. I just upped my ram another gig (1.5 now) and have been strongly considering this fix. I was just waiting for your guinea pig days to be over.