what NOT to do... classic ableton pitfalls
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stormfield
- Posts: 9
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- Location: Babylondon
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The Phat Conductor
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
amen to that!Silence wrote:i was wondering about tempo change during a set....
i myselfe, think that a set going steady on 132 bmp is assboring...and if the thing is more organic or atleast has a 2 or 3 tempo shifts it feels alot better....
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher
http://www.illgates.com
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher
http://www.illgates.com
This is something I've been trying alot lately. By renaming scenes to the tempo you want them to play at (ie - 90BPM) when you trugger that scene the global tempo will set itself to that value.
Great - but this can cause your transition between the old and new tempo sound a bit abrupt. What I want to be able to do is "mask" the sound of the tempo increase/decrease. Ideally, I'd like the tempo to change over 4 or 8 bars, or, even better, to have the tempo change occur while a track is fading out with a HUGE reverb effect running over it...
Great - but this can cause your transition between the old and new tempo sound a bit abrupt. What I want to be able to do is "mask" the sound of the tempo increase/decrease. Ideally, I'd like the tempo to change over 4 or 8 bars, or, even better, to have the tempo change occur while a track is fading out with a HUGE reverb effect running over it...
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The Phat Conductor
- Posts: 1768
- Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 9:30 pm
load a sample of some whooshey sounds or talking without beats and set it to have warp off. then you can drastically change tempo without jumps.
ill gates aka the phat conductor
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher
http://www.illgates.com
producer, performer + ableton/music teacher
http://www.illgates.com
TPC wrote:
rock it, make mistakes... show emotion and energy, being perfect is being dull.
and i second not to overdue a certain effect, no matter what effect, the filter on the pioneer DJ mixers anyone? aarrghh!
and yeah, tempo and emotion changes are a must!
absolut word! i can't stand live performances, no matter what kind that are like listening to a CD at home...it's generally better to see some one having fun, rocking out, pushing themselves and maybe making a mistake or two than it is to hear a 'perfect' performance done by an emotionless robot.
rock it, make mistakes... show emotion and energy, being perfect is being dull.
and i second not to overdue a certain effect, no matter what effect, the filter on the pioneer DJ mixers anyone? aarrghh!
and yeah, tempo and emotion changes are a must!
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loose_unit85
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:47 pm
- Location: Sydney - australia
Filters, filters, filters.... they are not a complete substitute for eqs when mixing. I've noticed far to many people using them as the constant transition medium for mixes, proper eq layering and mix selection goes a long way.
Also try go easy on the remixes, if your going to do live remixes, plan them out, use lots of scenes and clips, don't just go droping tracks one over the other when ever you feel like it just because you can, especially when your just trying to layer the vocals of another track by eq/filtering out the other elements, try and get the accapella.
that is all.
Also try go easy on the remixes, if your going to do live remixes, plan them out, use lots of scenes and clips, don't just go droping tracks one over the other when ever you feel like it just because you can, especially when your just trying to layer the vocals of another track by eq/filtering out the other elements, try and get the accapella.
that is all.
skateboarding ruined my life....
i don't know why it took me so long to find this thread, but at first it seemed like i had a lot to say on this topic, but as of this point, i'm just goiing to tell you some of the things i do with live, and you tell me if it's ok or not...
i create 7 hour sets of music broken up by tempo / genre changes once or twice an hour, and certain songs are strategically placed within these sets at 15 minute intervals for the different girls on different sets at the club... I use a maximum of three audio tracks and zero yes 0000 FX. Not that I believe I could do some of the stuff I do with Ableton - with CDs, but in reality if I had three Pioneer CDJ-1000s and perfect fingers that night (for looping), I could do a lot of the programming that is made possible by Ableton. I have yet to use Session view to DJ at a real nightclub, and for that matter I don't use Ableton in any way (except for my edits and remixes on cd) at any NYC gigs... I'm just not comortable enough to use the mouse so much in front of an audience (read: waiting to build or buy a custom controller)... Since the edits have been coming out so great, I wonder if i could just put together something sick for 15 mins and leave it as an easy mix in - mix out situation that would make people would go nuts, but I'd have to pretend to DJ or something right? how many guys you think might already be guilty of this? ..
luckily (not really) I haven't had any nightclub gigs since March (but go-go pays the bills), and Ableton makes 32 hours of DJing a week, an amazing experience.
let me ammend my point about the cdj1000s... there is no way to mix a 96 bpm reggaeton song into and out of a house track at 128 while bringing them both down from 128 to 96 with CD players or vinyl ever.
I disagree with the statement in the first thread that says to use re-pitch mode for warping any song. I recommend
beats mode - only if you are within 1 or 2 integers of the original bpm. If the tempo you wish to play at is more than 2 points away from the original timing, it is time to experiment with the other four.
Female accappellas and melodies in midrange to high kHz benefit from tones - grain size 25-65
Male accappellas, bass lines, electro sounds = texture mode - flux 0-15, grains 40-80
Re-pitch mode = cd players without "key adjust" make your songs sound like this when u move the pitch fader more than 1.5% Use this when you want to get everyones attention and make it sound like a record slowly coming to a stop, or if you purposefully do not want to preserve the key of the particular track
anything that will be drastically changed or will be changing while playing needs complex mode... most full elektronik songs that you are warping more than 2 or 3 points from the original will probabaly sound best with complex when it is mixing with another song, but by itself, you will notce that complex mode sucks some of the life out of a kick... but the more and more you use complex and understand eq-ing and leveling in live (for performance issues) you will appreciate the complex mode and use it more and more because some guys still insist on making sick songs at 123 when they sound perfectly fine at 128 or 130...
I'm done...
i create 7 hour sets of music broken up by tempo / genre changes once or twice an hour, and certain songs are strategically placed within these sets at 15 minute intervals for the different girls on different sets at the club... I use a maximum of three audio tracks and zero yes 0000 FX. Not that I believe I could do some of the stuff I do with Ableton - with CDs, but in reality if I had three Pioneer CDJ-1000s and perfect fingers that night (for looping), I could do a lot of the programming that is made possible by Ableton. I have yet to use Session view to DJ at a real nightclub, and for that matter I don't use Ableton in any way (except for my edits and remixes on cd) at any NYC gigs... I'm just not comortable enough to use the mouse so much in front of an audience (read: waiting to build or buy a custom controller)... Since the edits have been coming out so great, I wonder if i could just put together something sick for 15 mins and leave it as an easy mix in - mix out situation that would make people would go nuts, but I'd have to pretend to DJ or something right? how many guys you think might already be guilty of this? ..
luckily (not really) I haven't had any nightclub gigs since March (but go-go pays the bills), and Ableton makes 32 hours of DJing a week, an amazing experience.
let me ammend my point about the cdj1000s... there is no way to mix a 96 bpm reggaeton song into and out of a house track at 128 while bringing them both down from 128 to 96 with CD players or vinyl ever.
I disagree with the statement in the first thread that says to use re-pitch mode for warping any song. I recommend
beats mode - only if you are within 1 or 2 integers of the original bpm. If the tempo you wish to play at is more than 2 points away from the original timing, it is time to experiment with the other four.
Female accappellas and melodies in midrange to high kHz benefit from tones - grain size 25-65
Male accappellas, bass lines, electro sounds = texture mode - flux 0-15, grains 40-80
Re-pitch mode = cd players without "key adjust" make your songs sound like this when u move the pitch fader more than 1.5% Use this when you want to get everyones attention and make it sound like a record slowly coming to a stop, or if you purposefully do not want to preserve the key of the particular track
anything that will be drastically changed or will be changing while playing needs complex mode... most full elektronik songs that you are warping more than 2 or 3 points from the original will probabaly sound best with complex when it is mixing with another song, but by itself, you will notce that complex mode sucks some of the life out of a kick... but the more and more you use complex and understand eq-ing and leveling in live (for performance issues) you will appreciate the complex mode and use it more and more because some guys still insist on making sick songs at 123 when they sound perfectly fine at 128 or 130...
I'm done...
Re: there is somthing good here.
Hmmm, i wonder what e e cummings would make of "gramatically correct"?salatspinatra wrote:reminds me of The Elements of Style, but for Live. That doesn't make you a c-nt. It makes you 'gramatically correct'.
at the end of the day it's great to point out cliches, but it's also work remembering that these are ALL just guidlines and there is nothing more important then REALLY listening to what you make and learning what your tools do.
Last edited by bencodec on Thu May 18, 2006 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
wow, thanks for this amazing info, thats great.Patch wrote:This is something I've been trying alot lately. By renaming scenes to the tempo you want them to play at (ie - 90BPM) when you trugger that scene the global tempo will set itself to that value.
Great - but this can cause your transition between the old and new tempo sound a bit abrupt. What I want to be able to do is "mask" the sound of the tempo increase/decrease. Ideally, I'd like the tempo to change over 4 or 8 bars, or, even better, to have the tempo change occur while a track is fading out with a HUGE reverb effect running over it...
One more "what not to do". This one's for the producers and really for the Live PAs, not so much for the Ableton DJs.
Don't act like you're some sort guru with forbidden knowledge. When people come up and ask stupid questions, remember; you practice this, they don't. They're probably better than you are at something else other than music.
After all, you wouldn't appreciate it if you went to a Doctor and wanted to know why you got a big red spot on your body and he tells you "Hey dumbfuck, don't you know what a Cavernous Hemangioma is??!?!"
I've seen too many Live PAs, (particularly the Gear Sluts, the Software weenies aren't so bad) who like to keep what they're doing inaccessable. You're going to get questions, be reasonable and answer them at the knowledge level of the asker (assuming you have time and you're not rockin the show).
I got started in the early '90s, and there were PLENTY of pricks out there who wouldn't share info. My pet peeve, I had to learn the REALLY hard way, and it sucked.
M
Don't act like you're some sort guru with forbidden knowledge. When people come up and ask stupid questions, remember; you practice this, they don't. They're probably better than you are at something else other than music.
After all, you wouldn't appreciate it if you went to a Doctor and wanted to know why you got a big red spot on your body and he tells you "Hey dumbfuck, don't you know what a Cavernous Hemangioma is??!?!"
I've seen too many Live PAs, (particularly the Gear Sluts, the Software weenies aren't so bad) who like to keep what they're doing inaccessable. You're going to get questions, be reasonable and answer them at the knowledge level of the asker (assuming you have time and you're not rockin the show).
I got started in the early '90s, and there were PLENTY of pricks out there who wouldn't share info. My pet peeve, I had to learn the REALLY hard way, and it sucked.
M
i'm too happy about being able to do what i can do in ableton (tongue twister), to NOT answer questions... but u have to draw the line between answering a question and being a quasi-Ableton professor... Ableton makes me money, that's why i pay for updates and promote it to anyone who's interested... but in the end i really don't want anyone else to be able to do the things i do, but you just have to suck it up and try to do what you do better. being considered the absolute greatest at something is only something you would want after you have died...M. Bréqs wrote:One more "what not to do". This one's for the producers and really for the Live PAs, not so much for the Ableton DJs.
Don't act like you're some sort guru with forbidden knowledge. When people come up and ask stupid questions, remember; you practice this, they don't. They're probably better than you are at something else other than music.
After all, you wouldn't appreciate it if you went to a Doctor and wanted to know why you got a big red spot on your body and he tells you "Hey dumbfuck, don't you know what a Cavernous Hemangioma is??!?!"
I've seen too many Live PAs, (particularly the Gear Sluts, the Software weenies aren't so bad) who like to keep what they're doing inaccessable. You're going to get questions, be reasonable and answer them at the knowledge level of the asker (assuming you have time and you're not rockin the show).
I got started in the early '90s, and there were PLENTY of pricks out there who wouldn't share info. My pet peeve, I had to learn the REALLY hard way, and it sucked.
M