MPC vs All softwares mega stellar battle intergalactica!!

[Jackal and Hyde]

annnnnnd yes, i did write the curriculum for the mpc2000 class" "More fun sometimes, yes. Faster sometimes, yes. Better timing, no."



.lm.

Thank god you werent teaching a course for electricians. They'd all be killing themselves on the job. lol


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator







.

You're seriously saying that the clock in a sequencer from the mid nineties based on a fucking dual Pentium 286 processor is more accurate than the clock in a modern soundcard? Whilst this is obviously possible, in that I've done no hands-on research and am a nought but a philology student when the sun's out and it's not July, I have to ask if you happen to be in the market for a bridge? I've got a big red once for sale, sitting right in San Francisco, ready for use. It's yours for a song!

Anyways, set up the blind test. I'm game.

This is ancient news man... Its been debated at NAMM since man first walked upright. Your argument - "You're seriously saying that the clock in a sequencer from the mid nineties based on a fucking dual Pentium 286 processor is more accurate than the clock in a modern soundcard?" Would be met with, "Your telling me you think the timing of a modern Mac/PC is better than that of a quartz watch or an atomic clock used by NASA built in 1949? Def not. They'd argue "it doesnt matter about 1/96ppqn vs 1/100,000,000ppqn because the crystal is locked at 5.000000 infinity MHz and cannot be incorrect. Then they'd argue thats why Pro Tools the 'world standard' has the "Strip Silence" / "Beat Detective" quantize/re-lock to grid feature for bringing in sessions. Because computers are not all perfect and different platforms can be off and even if by a few samples at 100 + measures, it can still cause headaches and drifts no matter how minute.

But on with the test. . .

[leisuremuffin]

So jackal, you really think you can discern the difference between mpc and live playing a simple sound at straight quantized 16th notes?


if you answer yes, i will happily make up the test.




.lm.

[Jackal and Hyde]

So jackal, you really think you can discern the difference between mpc and live playing a simple sound at straight quantized 16th notes?


if you answer yes, i will happily make up the test.




.lm.

Of course not. Thats not the question... the question is whether or not it would be "off" a few samples or a even a 64th after 80 + measures on a time line. And I'll already tell you that the MPC's will be off with the CPU's 100% of the time. But the MPC's will always be "exactly" off with the CPU's, but identical every time.

[leisuremuffin]

ok.

so you think you'll be able to notice this difference over the course of a whole track?


.lm.

[Jackal and Hyde]

ok.

so you think you'll be able to notice this difference over the course of a whole track?



.lm.

"Notice a difference"? ? ? No. Not unless I could see it drift. If it was locked at measure 1 and out at measure 156 you zoomed in, and saw the kick off a few samples would be the only way of telling if it was off.

[leisuremuffin]

sorry, just edited last post. i'm going to change it back now.


you think that the tempo will drift in a track i've created in live due to inacurate timing?


.lm.

[rikhyray]

BTW, Rikhy, i'm surprised you buy into such a silly idea. And also that you like the mpc4000. Have you ever used one?


The mpc's are popular because of interface and workflow. The 4000 is unpopular because while the idea of combining a big polyphonic multisampler with the mpc2000 is great, the execution was horrible. Basic things in the sequencer like the track mute page had their funcionality completly changed for the worse. It became an ugly workstation-like product that mpc fans couldn't get into. If they had done the 4000 better, i'd be using that right now instead of a laptop.


I know lot's of folks who own 2000's and now 1000's, but hardly anyone who owns a 4000. Everyone i know who bought one got rid of it.




.lm.

hell no, it is a monster, like the Roland do they desging these for Shaq ? and of course I know all these teething problems of 4k, glad never bought it. I only talk timing here nothing else ( 4k has higher resolution). I would get RS 7000 but it is also too big, I cannot depend on check in gear, too often things go wrong. Though pads are not as good (less sensors) 1000 is nice portable piece but I am spoiled too much by Live for any samples,
There is no question, hardware clock for Live live is a must. I wonder if Revolution could beused as the master, I would definitely have more use of it then of MPC.
I try to use minimum gear. So MPC fans please tell me some good ideas what more (then master clock and drum machine) I could do with it, what is all you do and what you live in Live? Maybe will buy it. I hit the limits of Korg MX ( means I have made sets for live use but cannot make more without it sounding all same, sonic choice is too limited and you can intgrate it with nothing seriously- as sequencer ) and have to replace it as hardware master. since Yamahas are too big and have lame outdated sounds which I never liked even when they were new. MPC1k is most portable candidate.

[rikhyray]

.

[leisuremuffin]

wellll Rikhy, the greatest thing about the mpc in my opinion is the "track mute" page.

it lets you turn on and off your midi sequences by hitting the pads. I love using this to create evolving sequences. Basically i use this to "juggle" beats. Like i'll have 16 simple midi sequences but by muteing and unmuting them in real time with my fingers something new is born. This is especially great when you have some tracks that are triplets and play snippets of them against straight tracks.


you can also switch between whole sequences using the pads making it great at on the fly arrangement - re-arrangement.


it's simply the most fun and inspiring midi note seqeuncer ever.




.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

Just a quick point.

When i finish a track in live and send the wav file (just the wave file, no analysis file) to a friend, why is it that they don't need any warp markers if i tell them the original tempo?

according to JackylandHyde this should not be true since the timing is going to drift.


so what's up with that? Am i just lucky?


.lm.

[rikhyray]

Hm, interesting, got me thinking about the option of moving the midi work to MPC, since I am not too happy with Lives midi. I must give it a try but the damn MPC sell like hotcakes, no stocks here. Another MPC plus, I dont know of any music hardware (electronic) with such resale value ( maybe Sennheiser HD 25 sold mine 10years old and for 10 Euro more bought new set) in case I dont need like it anymore.

[leisuremuffin]

well, it's great for drum programming and simple keys.


But if you had a great classical or jazz or whatever piano player record an unquantized midi performance into it, they would be dissapointed by what came out. Software works better for that.



.lm.

[rikhyray]

Just a quick point.

When i finish a track in live and send the wav file (just the wave file, no analysis file) to a friend, why is it that they don't need any warp markers if i tell them the original tempo?

according to JackylandHyde this should not be true since the timing is going to drift.


so what's up with that? Am i just lucky?


.lm.

`
Talking different things midi and audio. I am not BT fan but agree with him that mid sucks ( sucks less on hardware, in Cubase and Loogic less then in Live) it is so bloody outdated but the industry seems stuck with it.
Live is originally audio program and is great at it, it is nice we have midi but Ableton cant make midi "good" only better, cause midi is old horse shit.

[rikhyray]

What is the resolution of MPC 1000 ?

[leisuremuffin]

Just a quick point.

When i finish a track in live and send the wav file (just the wave file, no analysis file) to a friend, why is it that they don't need any warp markers if i tell them the original tempo?

according to JackylandHyde this should not be true since the timing is going to drift.


so what's up with that? Am i just lucky?


.lm.

`
Talking different things midi and audio. I am not BT fan but agree with him that mid sucks ( sucks less on hardware, in Cubase and Loogic less then in Live) it is so bloody outdated but the industry seems stuck with it.
Live is originally audio program and is great at it, it is nice we have midi but Ableton cant make midi "good" only better, cause midi is old horse shit.

Oh sure, midi is way outdated. But i think it holds up ok for note on/off. It's when you get to CCs that it's really bad.


but good or bad, all of my tracks have midi elements, what i'm asking is, if the timing for midi is so bad in live, why don't my finished tracks that have midi elements drift in tempo?


anything "bad" about midi in live is about editing or ease of sync to other devices, not the inherent internal timing vs. hardware as some people are trying to say.


.lm.