Live 5 and Novation Automap

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:11 am

I am having a serious problem with Automap in Ableton. When clicking on a device in Ableton it works the first few times changing the device parematers to reflect the device that has been clicked but then stops and stays stuck on a single device. I have tried on 2 different machines, using only Ableton devices (Operator, Simpler, Impulse), VST Devices (NI Pro53, FM7 B4II) and a combination of both. Same results everytime, the automap follows the first few changes then stays on a single device no matter which other device you click on. The “lock to device” button is NOT on (the one next to the top left row of buttons), but it is exhibiting that kind of behaviour. I have tried reinstalling the drivers and reinstalled factory templates, to no avail. Any help would be appreciated!

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:33 pm

To clarify my previous post.. I can get the Sl to bring up the automapped device settings on the LCD on the left for any device I click on, but only ONCE. If I say click on Impulse, it will map that, I click on operator, it will automap that.. BUT I then click back on Impulse, and it stays stuck on operator. Seems it won't let me select anything a 2nd time. it's driving me quite mad.

john gordon · Post by **john gordon** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:40 pm

Pandamonium wrote:To clarify my previous post.. I can get the Sl to bring up the automapped device settings on the LCD on the left for any device I click on, but only ONCE. If I say click on Impulse, it will map that, I click on operator, it will automap that.. BUT I then click back on Impulse, and it stays stuck on operator. Seems it won't let me select anything a 2nd time. it's driving me quite mad.

im having the same problem here.

palimpsest73 · Post by **palimpsest73** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:54 pm

john gordon wrote:
Pandamonium wrote:To clarify my previous post.. I can get the Sl to bring up the automapped device settings on the LCD on the left for any device I click on, but only ONCE. If I say click on Impulse, it will map that, I click on operator, it will automap that.. BUT I then click back on Impulse, and it stays stuck on operator. Seems it won't let me select anything a 2nd time. it's driving me quite mad.
im having the same problem here.

Do you have the latest automap template and SL OS loaded? Live should be updated to 5.0.5 or above.

Make sure you update to the latest Live automap template AND update the OS as well. I had thought that the OS installs with the automap templates when it prompts you to update, but it actually needs to be loaded separately.

If you power up and the SL displays OS 1.0, you need to update to 1.0.13

once you have download the file, it's not quite as straightforward as updating it with the free editor. I had to load the OS sysex file into a Sysex librarian, set the SL to receive OS (under global menu), then transmit the file over. I only found this out after lots of trial and error trying to get it to update through the editor. I assume in theory it's supposed to work, but I found it much more straightforward by doing it manually.

Using the latest updates I have no trouble switching between VSTs in Live. The appropriate controls do switch over when you change focus between multiple VSTs, not only Ableton, but some others (I use Korg legacy and Kontakt 2). Often the right side LCD behaviour is erratic and the Live automap sometimes only gets partially overwritten here, but usually this disappears when you refocus whatever you are editing.

It's not perfect, but it's getting there. I have a few other issues besides automap, but overall it's a usable product. Hopefully these minor bugs will get ironed out in future updates--I do hope in the near future other software companies gets on board to make it even more usable.

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:21 pm

In regards to my above post on devices not being automapped, I just recieved this back from Novation Tech support (who btw are a lot more responsive than they used to be!):-
Thanks for your mail,

This is an issue in the Ableton automap on a PC, we have made Ableton aware of the bug, and hopefully it will be resoleved in a future Ableton update.

Let me know if I can be of any further assistance.

WTF? in other words Ableton automap only works properly on Mac???? I can see no where on either Abletons or Novations site where it says this. This is tantamount to false advertising. VERY unhappy about this.

BTW I am on Ableton 5.2 with latest os and Templates for SL

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:30 pm

Pandamonium wrote:WTF? in other words Ableton automap only works properly on Mac???? I can see no where on either Abletons or Novations site where it says this. This is tantamount to false advertising. VERY unhappy about this.

BTW I am on Ableton 5.2 with latest os and Templates for SL

Nope, PC user here, I've seen automap work on 3 seperate PCs with 2 different SL25s w/o this bug. It might be that the bug is in the hardware, wonbloze and their API layer, on Ableton's end of things, just a guess.

The fader jump thing is annoying enough.

Tantamount is a cool word.

dpmtl · Post by **dpmtl** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:07 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote: Nope, PC user here, I've seen automap work on 3 seperate PCs with 2 different SL25s w/o this bug. It might be that the bug is in the hardware, wonbloze and their API layer, on Ableton's end of things, just a guess.

Thanks for that dkf. It could be the unit-it's the same on my desktop and my laptop(pc). I'll try the sysex update though, can i do this with midiox? I'm brushing up on my midi so if this is a dumb question forgive me

. Open file in midi ox and transmit with SL25 set to receive os right?

I'll post back with my findings, later.

tjp

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:26 am

DeadlyKungFu wrote: Nope, PC user here, I've seen automap work on 3 seperate PCs with 2 different SL25s w/o this bug. It might be that the bug is in the hardware, wonbloze and their API layer, on Ableton's end of things, just a guess.

The fader jump thing is annoying enough.

Tantamount is a cool word.

Hmm, I have seen it NOT working on 2 separate machines (same SL though) surely if it was a problem with windows API layer it would affect all PCs? Anyways, Novation know about the problem and claim it is a problem with Live and it is up to Ableton to fix. Waiting to hear back from Abes support..

debu · Post by **debu** » Tue May 30, 2006 3:35 am

I have the same problem, and if anyone has a work around to get the automapped device unstuck, that would be great. As far as I know it's just one of the bugs novation has yet to work out, I've contacted support and have yet to hear back..

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:37 am

According to Novation, it's a problem Ableton need to work out, and that they know about. So, how about it Abes? It's a pretty damn serious problem!

dpmtl · Post by **dpmtl** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:50 pm

Have you all tried the sysex update? I keep getting packet error. Not entirely sure what this means. Would this contribute to other bugs and problems..*scratches chin thoughtfully*. Apparently it signifies an error from what i can glean on the 'answerbase'. Anyway back to the dealer with it.

Laters.

tjp

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:59 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: Nope, PC user here, I've seen automap work on 3 seperate PCs with 2 different SL25s w/o this bug. It might be that the bug is in the hardware, wonbloze and their API layer, on Ableton's end of things, just a guess.

The fader jump thing is annoying enough.

Tantamount is a cool word.

Would love to know what you did to make it work, Albleton and Novation have both confirmed to me that Automap only works correctly on Mac, they both know about the problem of only being able to select a device once on PC. What version Windows? Which Remote SL os and driver version?

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:34 pm

Pandamonium wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote: Nope, PC user here, I've seen automap work on 3 seperate PCs with 2 different SL25s w/o this bug. It might be that the bug is in the hardware, wonbloze and their API layer, on Ableton's end of things, just a guess.
Would love to know what you did to make it work, Albleton and Novation have both confirmed to me that Automap only works correctly on Mac, they both know about the problem of only being able to select a device once on PC. What version Windows? Which Remote SL os and driver version?

Win XP home, Win XP Pro, latest OS and drivers.

I did nothing to make it work than to read the directions.

I'm suspicious of your being truthful about the Abes and Novation stating how this does/doesn't work, I say that because I've never seen it NOT work on PCs, faderjumps, loss of settings in the Preferences and bad hardware aside.

Please chill.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:17 am

sidownes wrote:Is anyone using a Remote SL with an Intel Mac? All the functions work?

My question exactly.

Now, I see some macintel beta drivers on the website.....but not sure what they are for...everything? Just the input drivers? or, will that allow automap.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to to order it straight away........I've been waiting for about 6 months to get a new key controller.......mine has about had it!!!!!

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:55 am

eyeknow wrote:
sidownes wrote:Is anyone using a Remote SL with an Intel Mac? All the functions work?
Now, I see some macintel beta drivers on the website.....but not sure what they are for...everything? Just the input drivers? or, will that allow automap.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to to order it straight away........I've been waiting for about 6 months to get a new key controller.......mine has about had it!!!!!

If this is for a laptop my suggestion would be to take it into a store and see if it all works first hand. If it's a desktop, buy an SL locally, take it home, see if it works and return it if you need to. There were hardware problems with the first batch and now this weird stuff.

As I understand it the drivers are for everything, input, output, Automap. Automap is hard coded into Live and the SL, it seems that it partly uses the MIDI protocol but there's something else going on there. Whatever it is, it's so weird that (as the editing software states) you can't consistently download an automap template from the SL then upload it back on, which is a drag if you want to save/share MIDI assignments.