Yes, DJs are aLIVE!. WTF?

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:58 pm

ScumFrog is cool - I have no idea why he would be doing - I love his production but if he's hating on Laptop dj's then I'll never buy a remix or original of his again and I'll tell my one friend not to either

D:Fuse on the other hand can catch AIDS and die from Herpes in is rectum for all I care...one of the worse dj set's I ever saw - not only was he train wrecking but he was wearing a cowboy hat which made him look like a clown - sort of what's happening here...

If the "industry" supports this non sense in the context it's in (hating on the laptop dj) and clubs and promoters book this shit then somethings wrong with the industry - know what I mean

ILTK · Post by **ILTK** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:06 pm

Ambioun - Techno Man wrote:So when did mixing records ever become "not a musical instrument."

Was it ever?

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:16 pm

Ambioun - Techno Man wrote:
hambone1 wrote:Although their motivation and attitudes may be somewhat misguided, I'm always pleased when DJs with talent aspire to become musicians.
So a DJ is not counted as a musician? So when did mixing records ever become "not a musical instrument." I'm opposed to laptop djing, so I bought finalscratch and tell me that is not playing a musical instrument.[/u]

If spinning vinyl is musicianship then darts is a sport, it's a stretch to call it that. Pick up a guitar and play some tunes to a live crowd, 100x more effort and practice required. Turntablism gets vinyl closer to musicianship, but you're saying Tiesto and Oakenfold are musicians? LMFAO!! Only a DJ would say this.

"Opposed to laptop DJing?" Close your eyes and someone could play the same set on both and you wouldn't even know.

DJs are only hired for one thing, TO SELL BEER. It's 1am, the music drops into a sweet groove, the place goes nuts. Is it a laptop DJ or a vinyl DJ? Who cares? I'll take talent and taste over gear selection.

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:47 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: DJs are only hired for one thing, TO SELL BEER. ...

Ahh.. I have to take issue with that, I'd say that a primary DJ's job is to play a selection of music for listening or dancing pleasure. Drinking is, of course a side-effect (?) of the dancing.

DeadlyKungFu wrote: Is it a laptop DJ or a vinyl DJ? Who cares? I'll take talent and taste over gear selection.

Most certainly. I'm with you on that one!

ILTK wrote: Was it ever?

I think it is, although it doesn't have to be.
The friend (vinyl DJ) I mentioned in the original post has played sets that stretch across genres and decades and still kept the kids bouncing around. His collection is varied and he has good enough taste and knowledge to bring people on a journey through that collection.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:58 pm

So friday I accidentally ate a chocolate mushroom and chilled out with some kind indica, Dan's CD "Lift" and a few friends

we discussed

I've been on this forum a minute and I was like well Dan is just playing all these other peoples music but - it then occured to me - he's fucking brilliant

first of all his America's # 1 dj hands down so every little house producer with a computer is sending him all these jams - half of them are making jams just for Dan to play - I know a couple tracks that will never see the light of day but he's rocking them from city to city

so Dan get's all the dopest music first - and he gets alot of it

you could give me those same beats or you could get all those same CD's and records and I can garuantee you or I would not have the same effect Dan has on the party - period. You'll play a good set and people will dance but they wont kick it the way they do when dan comes to town - plus it's the little things

you guys remember Dan used to scratch and do all kinds of weird shit - he still does that shit but he's so flawless you don't know if it's him or the record

sure we can play records and beat matching isn't the hardest thing in the world but

do you have any sense of programming records
can you integrate tricks and shit that are transparent
can you pack a house with your name alone
can you make people get up and dance, keep them dancing and begging for more when you're done

DJ's aren't musicians in the classic since of the word but we are just as talented as a guitarist or pianoist - ask them to get up there at CROBAR in Miami and rock the party of 6 hours - ha!

j0shu@ · Post by **j0shu@** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:58 pm

djs are like collage artists, they take little bits of things others have made and re-invent them. it is musical indeed, but that is not the same thing as being a musician.

producers and lappies that cross over into production and remixing are closer to musicians, but again, they are not actually being musicians, though some of the hats they wear whilst producing (playing some keyboard riffs, tweaking a synth) are hats worn by musicians.

i think, in a sense, most lappies are closer to being musicians than a vinyl dj. it is a careful line though, becaues to beatmatch with vinyl requires a very specific skill set, that is closer to playing an instrument. however, once the track is picked and the beats are matched, thats about it. a lappie will then chop that track up and try to take it to unexpected places, but they dont have to worry so much about beatmatching.

a musicians is like "oh, here is an instrument, with no predetermined samples, just a set of pitches. what key are we in? ahhh, A minor. okay, i will proceed to bust out riffs, phrases, melodies and comps in the same key (or related variation thereoff) that the rest of the band is in."

a dj is like "what is the bpm?" do the people in this room seem to like the tribal house or the deep house. ahhh the tribal house. where is that track. ahhh. let me mix this intro in."

either way music is produced. either art form is musical, and a few years ago i would have argued on the side of the dj for being a musician. but now, both with technology and with actually doing some djing myself, it is quite a separate beast, because unless you are a turntablist, you are not actually making the music yourself.

if you can do both then you are a musician who djs, and there are plenty of those. but if you just dj, you are not necessarily a musician. really it doesnt matter, casuse there are lots of musicians who want to be djs too, and lots of djs who want to be musicians.

we can all get along...

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:06 pm

j0shu@ wrote: i think, in a sense, most lappies are closer to being musicians than a vinyl dj. it is a careful line though, becaues to beatmatch with vinyl requires a very specific skill set, that is closer to playing an instrument. however, once the track is picked and the beats are matched, thats about it. a lappie will then chop that track up and try to take it to unexpected places, but they dont have to worry so much about beatmatching.

a dj is like "what is the bpm?" do the people in this room seem to like the tribal house or the deep house. ahhh the tribal house. where is that track. ahhh. let me mix this intro in."

if you can do both then you are a musician who djs, and there are plenty of those. but if you just dj, you are not necessarily a musician. really it doesnt matter, casuse there are lots of musicians who want to be djs too, and lots of djs who want to be musicians.

we can all get along...

No we can't

FYI - you can't just lock a track down once you have it beat matched - technics drift...and I think poorly produced music can have some slight drifts in tempo

enough so my hand never leaves the pitch control - I don't really know the bpm of the music I play but I bet it's anywhere from 133 to 140

Some people can pick up a guitar and start strumming and voila - they're good and are like what's the big deal

it's all relative - either one of us could spend our entire lives either trying to learn to mix properly or play the piano - that doesn't make either of us a musicians just because we picked up the intrument

I think we're throwing the word musician around like anyone can crown themselves with that titled

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:07 pm

Like E-40 is a musician
Jimmy Page is a musician
Beethoven was a musician
P Diddy is a musician
Dan is a musician

we should stop throwing that word around out of respect for Biggie!

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:10 pm

John Cage said everything can be music. Einstürzende Neubauten and a bunch of others kinda did, too.

To my mind that means anyone making a sound someone is paying attention to (even if it's only the creator that's listening) is a musician in that moment.

Being a musician is a serious responsibility, but it's no big deal. No matter how much we all care about skills, they just don't matter in the big picture. It all comes down to the impression of the listener.

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:14 pm

…and I'll take a turntablist over another Joe Satriani or Chick Corea anyday.

cashman · Post by **cashman** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:24 pm

djadonis206 wrote:...out of respect for Biggie!

Who?

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:31 pm

This thread all of a sudden reminded me of that Dave Chapelle Sketch with John Mayer

When white people hear a guitar they can't help but start dancing - hella funny

Dave and John walked around and John started playing the guitar and no matter what these people were doing they started grooving (off beat mind you) to John mayer playing the guitar - hilarious!!!

j0shu@ · Post by **j0shu@** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:36 pm

djadonis206 wrote: No we can't

FYI - you can't just lock a track down once you have it beat matched - technics drift...and I think poorly produced music can have some slight drifts in tempo

enough so my hand never leaves the pitch control - I don't really know the bpm of the music I play but I bet it's anywhere from 133 to 140

Some people can pick up a guitar and start strumming and voila - they're good and are like what's the big deal

it's all relative - either one of us could spend our entire lives either trying to learn to mix properly or play the piano - that doesn't make either of us a musicians just because we picked up the intrument

I think we're throwing the word musician around like anyone can crown themselves with that titled

first off let me say i mean most djs, not all. some are constantly cutting, changing things up and whatnot, which is closer to musicianship. also , let me say, this is not a get-pissed-off-hot-topic for me, im just wasting time at work.

and i dont mean the dj doesnt have to touch the turntable, i mean he is now actively engaged in keeping the records beatmatched. but he is not actively engaged in a series of chords, scales, or pitches in that he is like "ahhh, an F# to a Gmaj7"

here is the dictionary.com definition:

"One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music."

or

"n 1: someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession) [syn: instrumentalist, player] 2: artist who composes or conducts music as a profession"

the difference here, if we were to really get in a discussion, is in what we mean by music. sure john cage has 4''33' and all that, but one of cages biggest gripes was recorded music. he hated it. he did however love written music. and that is where my view comes in.

if you are a good musician you can read and understand music. period.

there are plenty of good players that play by ear, dont know what notes they are playing, and all that. they may be fabulous instrumentatlists, and indeed musicians in that experience or skill has given them the tools to understand music without the real technicalitites, but ....

you know what. this is taking too long. i dont care anymore.

djs are musicians.
musicians are djs that work in tandem with one another.
heck the bartender is also a dj.
and the bouncer is a musician.
cops are musicians and so are bakers and firefighters.

whooo! its just one big party now!

duh.....

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:03 pm

djadonis206 wrote:Some people can pick up a guitar and start strumming and voila - they're good and are like what's the big deal

haven't ever really seen that...it takes weeks just to build up calluses and to get your fingers to physically move how you want them to. And with no musical background, I don't think you can just pick up a guitar and all of a sudden come up with proper chords and start jazzin' out--maybe they figure out a 3 chord punk rock song with a dropped D tuning. It takes either lessons, previous experiences on another instrument (and thus knowledge of harmony, chordal theory, melody, and rythym), or self-training through printed material to get even close to "good" at guitar.

There's a lot to it--coordination of both hands, knowledge of harmony, chordal theory, melody, and rythym, and countless hours of practice to get decent. Even people I've known who picked up guitar from scratch with no background on another instrument take at least 3 months or more to get decent, and at least a year to get proficient. It really does take a lot of hard work and practice, even for the most inherently talented people. To get to the level of a decent jazz guitarist takes years.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:46 pm

quandry wrote:
haven't ever really seen that...it takes weeks just to build up calluses and to get your fingers to physically move how you want them to. And with no musical background, I don't think you can just pick up a guitar and all of a sudden come up with proper chords and start jazzin' out--maybe they figure out a 3 chord punk rock song with a dropped D tuning. It takes either lessons, previous experiences on another instrument (and thus knowledge of harmony, chordal theory, melody, and rythym), or self-training through printed material to get even close to "good" at guitar.

There's a lot to it--coordination of both hands, knowledge of harmony, chordal theory, melody, and rythym, and countless hours of practice to get decent. Even people I've known who picked up guitar from scratch with no background on another instrument take at least 3 months or more to get decent, and at least a year to get proficient. It really does take a lot of hard work and practice, even for the most inherently talented people. To get to the level of a decent jazz guitarist takes years.

Same can be said about a DJ - it takes months if not years to put together a collection of music that defines your style, energy etc

it takes a minute to actually learn to play in front of more than 2 people

your ears should be clued in to chord progressions and the key certain elements of a track are in - other wise it's going to sound like garbage when they're mixed

you just can't go buy a set of technics and ten records and call yourself a dj (well you can call yourself anything) but anything worth listening to takes time - a lot of time - same is true for a guitarist

but there are talented people who can just pick shit up and go