Yes, DJs are aLIVE!. WTF?

[DeadlyKungFu]

Some people can pick up a guitar and start strumming and voila - they're good and are like what's the big deal

haven't ever really seen that...it takes weeks just to build up calluses and to get your fingers to physically move how you want them to.

WOW. At least 6 months to get to the point where a new player is 'entertaining'. It takes A LOT less practice to beatmatch records and move a crossfader than it does to play guitar, and guitar is an easy instrument to start (hard to master).

I would pay good money to see a DJ walk up to a group of local rock musicians and start talking about how DJs are musicians.
Ass kicking to commence in 3... 2... 1...

It's as hard to say who's a musician as it is to say what music is. DJs are at the bottom of the food chain, what's easier than DJing? Humming? Whistling? I couldn't whistle tunes for 3 hours straight. Certainly the talent to ego ratio is the most out of control.

EDIT:
Come to think of it, some of the electronic programming I've done is easier, hitting random keys, experimenting with arpeggiators and whatnot in search of that HAPPY ACCIDENT. Does that bring this back around to laptop DJing is easier? I'm so confused.

[quandry]

Same can be said about a DJ - it takes months if not years to put together a collection of music that defines your style, energy etc

it takes a minute to actually learn to play in front of more than 2 people

your ears should be clued in to chord progressions and the key certain elements of a track are in - other wise it's going to sound like garbage when they're mixed

you just can't go buy a set of technics and ten records and call yourself a dj (well you can call yourself anything) but anything worth listening to takes time - a lot of time - same is true for a guitarist

but there are talented people who can just pick shit up and go

agreed, no doubt, it certainly takes time (and a shitload on records or wav/mp3 files) to become proficient at dj'ing. But just recognizing the tonic or tempo of a song, or the chord progression in order to match it with a similar song is a long ways away from being able to pick up a guitar and play that chord progression, keep a steady and grooving tempo, to be able to solo in the proper key(s) over the chords, etc. No disrespect--good DJ's spend years honing their craft and crates, and turntablists like the invisible scratch piklz are amazing virtuousos of the turntable, but learning to physically play an instrument like guitar and to retain all of the knowledge to be able to read real book jazz charts and know all of the chords and substitutions, and to be able to solo over changes in real time is a whole other ballgame entirely.

[djadonis206]

It takes A LOT less practice to beatmatch records and move a crossfader than it does to play guitar, and guitar is an easy instrument to start (hard to master).

I would pay good money to see a DJ walk up to a group of local rock musicians and start talking about how DJs are musicians.
Ass kicking to commence in 3... 2... 1...

It's as hard to say who's a musician as it is to say what music is. DJs are at the bottom of the food chain, what's easier than DJing? Humming? Whistling? I couldn't whistle tunes for 3 hours straight. Certainly the talent to ego ratio is the most out of control.

I don't know man, just as easy as you could walk into a room of people who didn't know the first thing about turntables and pretend to be doing something I could do the same with a guitar or set of drums or piano

As easy as djing is - why aren't you out there making shitloads of cash like Dan, Donald or Carl Cox - constantly in demand buying houses and SUV's and shit -

and lets not forget if you're really good at something it should look easy (second nature if you will) so I can see how you could go watch Marco Carola (Mr. Smooth) and be like what's the big fucking deal - how easy is that?

then you can have 3 or 4 turntables a packed warehouse / club get paid the deposit and all your rider fulfilled and do what he does - I don't think you can, but then I don't know maybe you can...

cause if djing really was that easy - I'd be fucking rich

[DeadlyKungFu]

Please don't take me too seriously.

I don't know man, just as easy as you could walk into a room of people who didn't know the first thing about turntables and pretend to be doing something I could do the same with a guitar or set of drums or piano

Not by a long shot. I dare you to spend 20 minutes at your local big chain guitar shop in the guitar section, double bonus points if you hang out in the drum room. If you've ever been curious to try, both instruments are amazingly fun, good things to add to your life.

As easy as djing is - why aren't you out there making shitloads of cash like Dan, Donald or Carl Cox - constantly in demand buying houses and SUV's and shit -

I've heard some of your stuff, you're as good of a DJ as I could never hope to be, why do you still have a day job? Society sucks that way, if it was up to me clubs would pay salaries so the DJs could spend all day cooking up tunes to play all night. The dudes you mention are crazy talented, have more than paid their dues and they got lucky.

then you can have 3 or 4 turntables a packed warehouse / club get paid the deposit and all your rider fulfilled and do what he does - I don't think you can, but then I don't know maybe you can... cause if djing really was that easy - I'd be fucking rich

'Pimpin' ain't easy but it's necessary
So I'm chasin bitches like Tom chased Jerry'
Had to write that, no real reason.

Of course not, and neither of us are gonna rock it like <enter blah blah guitar hero>.


I'm coming at you from a 'time to proficiency' angle I guess, or just a 'doesnt know when to stfu angle' with all respect to anyone out there doing it and endless thanks to those whom have made my head nod for the last 2 decades in the clubs, bars, dives, arenas, spots and street corners.

All are musicians, technicians of toons.

[djadonis206]

I'm just enjoying the conversation

I've got everything from Annie Lennox to Linkin Park on the MP3 player with some Carl Cox and Dj Dan thrown in between for the heck of it

Now in my opinion I believe it's a toss up between Annie Lennox and Layne Stayley for singers / song writers - very real emotional music you can feel - and they know how to sing

to me does that mean Chester from Linkin Park isn't a singer - of course he is - but he is in no way near the caliber Layne was - but he's a singer none the less

Dan in my opinion is more of a musician than Carl because Dan can take an idea and turn it into a super jam - a phone? A zipper? some guy saying Bam over and over again - for who he is and what he does pure genius

I think Carl Cox has a lot of people behind him making his music - you can listen to one of his productions and then another and they sound completely different - I don't know

but then you have your local crap ass dj's playing music "other" people made and they stand up there looking way to serious hacking up some nerd like me's music - asshole! <----that is a far cry from being called anything, musician, dj, entertainer etc - just some kid who's girlfriends cousin runs a night and he gets to open for another local dj who GOT to open for Dan last month (OMG!!!! he opened for DAN AHHHHHH)

now I'm not classically trained in anything except for pimpin' and my taste in music is somewhat tongue in cheek but I love music and I know a jam, artist or entertainer slash musician when I hear one

it's hard to deny someones got 'something' when you see them in person and what ever it is they're doing connects with that part of your brain that goes - holy shit, dawgs sick!!! know what I mean...

That's what blows me away about Scumfrog being a part of that stupid band - I consider him a top notch producer - class A I don't get it

but whatever

peace out from Mexico

DJA!

[jahnlay]

Lots of DJ's are musicians, I was playing piano from 10, long before I ever started spinning. Plus I play a lot of tracks and remixes that I've produced, so I think there's a bit of generalisation going on here.

[dj superflat]

1. is there a difference between being a writer and being an editor? if so, the divide between dj and musician likely is real in some cases, though the lines obviously blur depending on complexity of mix, etc.

2. are you a musician if you pick what record to play for dinner with your honey? most people would say not. so why does it change if you're picking what record to play to rock the house at a club? add beatmatching -- is that enough to count as being a musician for most folk? likely not. cutting together different track in some fresh way? getting closer probably.

3. turntablists clearly are musicians, because there's clearly an instrument they've mastered, even if not a traditional instrument. so when does a laptop become an instrument? if you have sufficient interaction that you're manipulating sound in real time? why do people react less positively if you're doing things in real time that you could have done offline? why do people seem to need proof that you're doing something? (people are way happier if they see you make loops live, even though making them at home before the show was likely the same process, even though you could have faked making the loop (by miming on guitar or whatever, then using canned material).)

4. collage is clearly a viable form of art (i already mentioned picasso and his bull made from bike bars and seat in another post), so making "new" music from other people's riffs, beats, whatever, clearly counts. whether it counts as much as mozart is another matter. but what's the difference between mozart using rules of counterpoint and harmony to flesh things out and using lives arpegiator, delays, etc., to build something from relative nothing?

5. the djs are alive thing is just plain dumb. people have been mixing records with live musicians for years, these people are doing nothing groundbreaking. however, the fact that they're so pumped about playing instruments suggests there is some difference between spinning discs/working the filter knob (that sounds dirty) and playing an instrument.