Live 5 and Novation Automap

Mick_G_ Novation · Post by **Mick_G_ Novation** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:45 am

It sounds to me like you are sending more than one copy of the MIDI clock out of the SLs USB MIDI Port (sending MIDI clock twice will result in a doubling of tempo). If you have the MIDI clock coming from a device via MIDI, you can route the MIDI in port to either of the USB MIDI ports of the SL in the global menu. If for example you have clock coming from the device, and have it routed to USBa and hence to Ableton and you have the SL set to output MIDI clock on USBa then two copies of the MIDI clock will be sent, hence doubling the tempo. To avoid this, either just route the MIDI port to the USB port and do not set the SL to output MIDI clock (then the USB port will only be sending out the MIDI clock from the device) or make sure the SL is not set to route the MIDI ports to the USB ports, and set the SL to output MIDI clock on the appropriate MIDI port (and to sync to the appropriate MIDI port.

If you still have problems drop me a mail- [email protected]

Jesse · Post by **Jesse** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:05 pm

Hi everyone,
We are aware of the issues here, and we hear you and are working with Novation to do what we can. Let me address a few of the issues here:

Regarding moving between instruments without a mouse:

Unfortunately, this is not as easy to logically implement. Which control/knob/button would we use to select between devices? We could not find a straightforward way to implement this when we were developing the mapping, and there is no clear solution here without dedicated buttons or arrow keys on the hardware.

Regarding jumping faders, etc.:
Unfortunately, at this time we don't have pick up/soft takeover mode in our software, and without motorized faders or endless rotary knobs, this is a problem that will be around for some time. However, it is on our wish list and we hope to develop this feature in a future update of the software, but we don't have an exact timeline at the moment as this is not an easy thing to implement.

Regarding the bug on PC only, regarding stuck selected instruments:
This has been fixed, and will be available with the next bug fix update to Live.

Other than this, we are working to get any other bugs out of the way, please make sure to post in the bugs & problems forum, and we'll have software fixes as soon as we can in the next update.
Best,
Jesse

buzzcock · Post by **buzzcock** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:43 pm

I'm curious to know how the Automap protocol works. Is it all MIDI information? How exactly does the hardware communicate with the software? I know that the Mackie Control protocol has for the most part been reverse engineered for those who want to build their own. Has this been done With Automap? Are there legal reasons why not?

Pandamonium · Post by **Pandamonium** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:04 pm

Jesse wrote: Regarding the bug on PC only, regarding stuck selected instruments:
This has been fixed, and will be available with the next bug fix update to Live.

Sweet, when can we get our hands on this? Automap is pretty much unusable for PC users at the moment because of this showstopper .

Thanks for the info

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:26 pm

Well shit. Looks like I owe Panda a beer or two.

I don't get why the fader jump can't be fixed.
if (incoming value == set value) then
remote_control = on;
else
remote_control = off;
end if;

Who knows, this shit's always easier when you're not the designer.

Cheers to Novation and Ableton for stepping up and clearing the air. Seriously, how cool is THAT?

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:45 pm

Jesse wrote: Regarding moving between instruments without a mouse:

Unfortunately, this is not as easy to logically implement. Which control/knob/button would we use to select between devices? We could not find a straightforward way to implement this when we were developing the mapping, and there is no clear solution here without dedicated buttons or arrow keys on the hardware.

One of the nice thing about having banks is so that you can do things like this with the hardware. Another good thing is that there are several different templates that can be chosen from. These are things that can work in all of our favor!

One solution might be to take back the right side of the unit (perhaps in a different live automap template?) from all of the currently faulty mixing tools. Personally, I already have a fw1884 which does a much better job at this, but I also have a $150 bfc2000 which is so much smoother, and also a korg microkontrol running LC XMU with non jumping faders in live.

I am positive that there are many others that would prefer to have more of these new automapped features, especially if it gave us our first mouse free control of devices! Now that would be top-modern!

As it is, I do not need the mixing side of things. I have several better options. Most of them work a lot better and are also considerably cheaper.

I am assuming that most of us bought this device for it's abillity to automap, and not so that we would have half of the unit's single automap template hardwired to something as redundant as another mixer. As it is, I am dissapointed that automapping can only work with 1 predesigned, non-editable template. However, here are my 3 suggestions:

1) If you chose to fit everything on the same template, the big Mod wheel that currently doesn't seem to be automapped to anything an d it would be wonderful for quickly scrolling/navigating between devices (I am getting really excited just thinking about this!) This could be a very basic solution that would keep those jumping-fader-mixer-fans happy. BTW, I think I might email John Pitcairn and ask him if he can make a modified XMU that specifically only adresses this fader issue. That could help. (!?) For now, however, I am happy with my 3 other mixers.

2) If you wanted to get a little more in depth, with or without the scroll/mod wheel, perhaps you could, assign a bank or two on the right side of the screen so that it can go from mixer mode to a device navigation mode? It would be sweet if we could use these two buttons beneath the faders to select between functions, and the
faders chang the values.

If there was a way of pressing the hold button on the right side of the unit so that the sliders were deactivated, we could then move our faders worry free so that when we change the next value the fader is a closer physical approximation to what the current value for the feature says on the computer screen. This would not be as noticeable as dramatic volume changes, and it would make a more optimised use of boards as well as the unique automap feature!

3) Or perhaps we could just have a more device specific template?

Ableton is my favoritiest software. I tip all of my forties to you. I mean it.

Novation: I'm getting a real crush on you. This controller could be the ultimate controller for live. All you need to do is share more of the automapping love! If you don't want us to be able to edit it mmore on our own, perhaps out of lack of means to implement such a feature or perhaps even out of fear of expanding the chance of reverse engineerring, at least give us the choice of scrolling or "up up down dwon left right left right b a starting" (30 lives in Contra

) to another one (though simply assigning an up down let or right would be fine!) As it is, I find the pads and the joystick extremely challenging to midimap. These, imo, would be a great tool to replace the mouse! The pad is sort of an easy solution, though it still doesn't have the sort of analytic, left-side of the brain proficiency that one might find from being able to "hard-scroll" through the the subset of each tracks devices and then transcend the confusing of toggling between all of live's great, but sometimes un-intutive screen selection process, and get to a visual representation of the next track device chain...

Sometimes when I am concentrating on making music I forget that if I click on one symbol it will get me in the midi or audio box rather than the device chain. While this is a petty detail, those of us multitasking former bartender-gone DJ/laptop performer types like myself are going through impulsive, details open-ended out of nowhere inspirations. When we have to bugger around with silly screens (doht!) we all of the sudden forget what we are doing and feel like that poor unfortunate PC guy those new MAC ads

trying to get back in the mood.-

By enabling the mod wheel to change to the visual on the next track, it would give a very means of optimising multiply-utilized-effect-proficiency. This means that someone like me could run all five of their controllers at once, doing different things, but use the novation to select visually between them on different tracks, with having to bother between navigating with a (frigging) mouse through midi or audio screens!

If I had five novation sl25' they would be just as good as one in automap mode, as they are so hardwired, so they should be alright with helping us make better use of all our existing ones, and perhaps, I repepat, allowing us to utilize our pre-existing, functioning mixers, and giving us that real estate on the right hand side of the control to AUTOMAP! AUTOMAP! AUTOMAP!

Thank you for you time Jesse!

I am really sorry for my typos. I need to get ready for my extended weekend trip. If you are in NYC Sunday or Monday I would gladly buy you a drink and spell this all out!

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:16 pm

debu · Post by **debu** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:32 pm

Good to hear that stuck device issue is getting worked out...

I'm thinking about adding a bcr to my setup after reading a little about the mackie control ability. I have a couple questions 1. Can I have the bcr and the sl25 as controls in preferences, and what kind of extra options/playability would this give? Would there be conflicts? Is addding a bcr redundant to the sl25? Anyone who has experience with both please chime in. thanks!

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:38 pm

I use both at once. No conflicts. I dont run mackie mode though.

The BCR does not have the fader jump problem. What it adds to your setup is up to you. By programming in unique CCs to a bunch of BCR presets the sky's the limit on that you can do.

dave dominey · Post by **dave dominey** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:47 am

im a rather happy chappy now

perfect unit and a snazzy gigbag

kosotodeluxe · Post by **kosotodeluxe** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:17 am

Mick_G_ Novation wrote:It sounds to me like you are sending more than one copy of the MIDI clock out of the SLs USB MIDI Port (sending MIDI clock twice will result in a doubling of tempo). If you have the MIDI clock coming from a device via MIDI, you can route the MIDI in port to either of the USB MIDI ports of the SL in the global menu. If for example you have clock coming from the device, and have it routed to USBa and hence to Ableton and you have the SL set to output MIDI clock on USBa then two copies of the MIDI clock will be sent, hence doubling the tempo. To avoid this, either just route the MIDI port to the USB port and do not set the SL to output MIDI clock (then the USB port will only be sending out the MIDI clock from the device) or make sure the SL is not set to route the MIDI ports to the USB ports, and set the SL to output MIDI clock on the appropriate MIDI port (and to sync to the appropriate MIDI port.

If you still have problems drop me a mail- [email protected]

Sweet!

Thanks.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:33 am

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:35 am

kosotodeluxe · Post by **kosotodeluxe** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:26 am

Anyway to clear all of the preset templetes and start fresh? I tried creating a new templete with the editor and hitting the upload button before assigning anything and it didn't work. There are a lot of templetes that I don't use that I would like to just start fresh with.

Is there a reset or quick clear button on the SL? Delete templete?

I realize that a few minutes with the editor will prolly be the solution, just wondering if I can clear from the SL itself.

Also, I was assigning some buttons to either toggle or on/of and Im now assuming those settings need to be set in the editor. Am I right?

dpmtl · Post by **dpmtl** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:28 pm

I haven't gotten in depth with configuring th SL25 but you can rearrange and reorganise your templates as you like with the editor and customise to your hearts content. Just select 'send bulk dumps' click on 'listen' and transmit your templates to the editor. Then you can use the buttons on the right to organise them and clear any templates you don't need. When your done hit the upload button. Easy. Read the help file it's all in there