Scales and Modes

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:35 am

hehe, yeah, my piano teacher has certain songs associated with intervals,

i believe a P5 = "star wars" in her mind

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:41 am

ben,

what are the 'hand signals' for the solfege notes ???

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:53 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfege
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gesture#Ko ... Hand_Signs
http://www.kodaly.org.au/Teaching/hand_signs.htm

Here we are....

-Ben

MrYellow · Post by **MrYellow** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:57 am

Once you nail major.....

Then:

Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do
Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do Ra
Me Fa So La Ti Do Ra Me
Fa So La Ti Do Ra Me Fa
So La Ti Do Ra Me Fa So
La Ti Do Ra Me Fa So La
Ti Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti
Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do

Saying the names helps u nail the modes cause u know the gap/interval to aim for.

-Ben

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:55 pm

This is just the thread I needed.

Now, how do I know which chords fit with each mode?

Rajah · Post by **Rajah** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:02 pm

Sartori wrote:This one probably most use to the guitarists out there, but all feedback is welcome!

I'm trying to learn about scales and modes, so I wrote a bit on my blog about 'em:

http://www.cubo.co.uk/2006/06/scales_and_modes.html

Anyone here who knows more than I do (most of you, I suspect) fancy reading over that and correcting me where I'm wrong, or people who know less than me (probably not many) let me know if bits need explaining? I think it could maybe do with some diagrams, but my brain's fried tonight...

I'm hopefully gonna continue with stuff to do with music theory generally, writing up bits as I try to learn them. I find explaining things helps me understand them (by showing what I don't understand myself, mostly!), so any constructive criticism is most welcome, i.e. don't just tell me it's rubbish!

http://www.chordspace.com/

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:40 pm

TheAnimal wrote:This is just the thread I needed. Now, how do I know which chords fit with each mode?

Take a scale, write out the notes, any chords you make with those notes fit, same for modes.

The modes and their related chords are:
mode#, mode name, 3 note chord, 4 note chord
1 - Ionian - major, major 7
2 - Dorian - minor, minor 7
3 - Phrygian - minor, minor 7
4 - Lydian - major, major 7
5 - mixolydian - major, dom 7
6 - aeolian - minor, minor 7
7 - Locrian - diminished, min7b5 (thanks digitalkettle!)

The song 'Boys Dont Cry' by the Cure follows that pattern, A, Bm, Cm, D, then back down again.

Modes are made overly complicated. If I tell you I'm going to solo in D Dorian (Dorian is the 2nd mode), that tells you a few things.
- The related major scale is C major, C D E F G A B
- my solo will revolve around the note D
- Dorian is a minor mode so my solo will sound 'sad'.
- I'll need the rest of the band to play something other than D so the song doesn't turn into D minor.

Modes are all about the interplay of notes, how one note/chord/scale sounds in context of another note/chord/scale.

To harmonise a scale, start on a note and add every other note. There are tons of sites out there. I learned from www.wholenote.com at the theory board and another site that's since died.

digitalkettle · Post by **digitalkettle** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:57 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: 7 - Locrian - diminished, <ugh forgot this chord, it's not a dim7>

min7b5

digitalkettle · Post by **digitalkettle** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 9:02 pm

digitalkettle wrote:
DeadlyKungFu wrote: 7 - Locrian - diminished, <ugh forgot this chord, it's not a dim7>
min7b5

Oh yeah, you can bung in a dim7 as a passing chord everywhere that there is a gap...if you really want to.
e.g. in C major: Cmaj7 -> C#dim7 -> Dmin7 -> D#dim7 -> Emin7 -> etc.

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:23 pm

DeadlyKungFu wrote: - I'll need the rest of the band to play something other than D so the song doesn't turn into D minor.

That describes my problem very well. So, if you're soloing in D dorian, how can one (me or someone in the band) find out which chords fit apart from D minor 7?

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:22 pm

So, if you're soloing in D dorian, how can one (me or someone in the band) find out which chords fit apart from D minor 7?

A couple ways: Firstly, the academic answer is that since D Dorian is the same as C Maj, all the chords are the same. Only the order has changed, as everything is shifted up one (since Dorian is the second mode).

In addition, the important thing to remember is that the basic rules of root-motion and resolution always apply to all music (even if being deliberately avoided); so for example, the allmighty "I-IV-V" still applies in Dorian - it's just that now it will be Dm7 - GMaj - Am7 (ala Black Magic Woman).

Basically the defining note of D Dorian is "B" instead of "Bb", so any diatonic chords that would normally have a Bb (like Gmin) will now have a B natural (like GMaj).

HTH!

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:16 pm

Yes, that helps! It's easier to talk about new features in the next Live version

than to make music. But I'm beginning to understand.

So, if you're in D dorian, I is Dm7, II is Em7, and so on, so that II-V-I is Em7 - Am7 - Dm7, right?

But what do you mean by "defining note"? The note that sets it apart from what you'd "normally" play (in D natural minor)?

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:28 pm

So, if you're in D dorian, I is Dm7, II is Em7, and so on, so that II-V-I is Em7 - Am7 - Dm7, right?

But what do you mean by "defining note"? The note that sets it apart from what you'd "normally" play (in D natural minor)?

You've got it!

...now back to whether Live 6 has a slicer or not

TheAnimal · Post by **TheAnimal** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:31 pm

Heehee

Darn - still no assignable delete function!

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:31 pm

TheAnimal wrote:But what do you mean by "defining note"? The note that sets it apart from what you'd "normally" play (in D natural minor)?

Yeah, what's up with that?

I don't think he means D natural minor because natural minor is the 6th mode, Aeolian and Dorian is also a minor mode (as well as #3 Phrygian, the rest are major aside from #7 Locrian which is a diminished <weird, rare mode>). It's not a given that picking a minor mode would mean natural minor, there are 3 to choose from.

D major and C major have B, not Bb, in flatting the B in the key of D gives a flat 6th, called an 11th. Gm isn't diatonic to C major/D Dorian, but G major is.

But I digress, just thinking out loud here as I bump this question.

Good thread, I dig the short, to the point answers.

Scales and Modes

Re: Scales and Modes