Black Skins for Ableton Live (updated - pack of 7 skins) :)

[supster]

Hmm, I would say there is a difference (in the eyes of Ableton) between content soundpacks and skins.

to us it may seem like there is no difference but consider the response from Alex about skin editing.

To Ableton - editing skins is altering the software not providing content, when pearsonart(?) mentioned profit, Alex agrees

edited for brevity

will someone from Ableton please comment in thread as to whether we can share info about the variables.

I'm not a lawyer but I think the EULA is pretty clear on prohibit every kind "reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, modify,...". So sorry but no.

I also don't expect the company to support compatibility with any of the 3rd party skins that are released - including Robert's.

Absolutely right. As long as we do not provide an official way to create skins we will not and also can not provide support for any 3rd party skins.

But then again, I could easily see a few successful variations influencing the built in skins of a future official release and that's a nice thought.

I would agree

My skin mods have been available since October and not a word from the company. I think as long as our intentions are good and no harm or profit comes from it, we're being encouraged to tinker.

I would agree.
So to provide skins for your own use or for others is one thing we can live with but not to provide guides explaining internals of our software or our formats nor to provide tools to create files of our formats without our authorization.

regards,
/Alex

original thread
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... c&start=48

i still really think that if people want to paypal this guy some money for all the hours he spent, nobody should care. hes not providing source code or methodology .. hes just giving people something cool to work with

a. abletons aesthetic sense is practically worthless. Sorry - but its been 5 versions and thier skins are 95% useless for all intents and purposes. garish, bright, ugly, impossible to see essential functions

.. there are about 2 of them i can use without going blind

b. plenty of companies provide skinning utilities and allow user interactions with thier products. Why not Ableton? ... Does this seem rather .. "tight"

or maybe some people got nerdy and overanalyzed the single post by alex about the EULA etc . and they really just dont fucking care one way or the other.... which i think is more likely the case.

i doubt many of them sit around thinking about this. more likely you would get a letter from m-audio or some suit in a parent company (you know, the ones that are helping ruin the product somehow... we cant prove it, we just know it somehow)

finally:

c. we have an at least 50% disfunctional product right now, i would think to keep people happy while we're waiting to pay them to fix it, it would be decent of them to let us have some new user skins

i mean, really

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[nebulae]

Suppose a 3rd party skinning add-on was allowed, or a Live skinner was included in version 6. If then people made skin-packs to be sold as an add-on, would that violate any legal issues or EULAs? Also, if it does not violate it after the skin tools come out, then why would it violate it now? I think people providing skins is really not very different than Livefills with presets, etc.

[forge]

Suppose a 3rd party skinning add-on was allowed, or a Live skinner was included in version 6. If then people made skin-packs to be sold as an add-on, would that violate any legal issues or EULAs? Also, if it does not violate it after the skin tools come out, then why would it violate it now? I think people providing skins is really not very different than Livefills with presets, etc.

I think you're probably right there

[supster]

Suppose a 3rd party skinning add-on was allowed, or a Live skinner was included in version 6. If then people made skin-packs to be sold as an add-on, would that violate any legal issues or EULAs? Also, if it does not violate it after the skin tools come out, then why would it violate it now? I think people providing skins is really not very different than Livefills with presets, etc.

I think you're probably right there

ya

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[Angstrom]

hey, I totally agree with you, I was a bit suprised that Alex banned the passing of info on how to edit the skins if they have stated that they are not going to make a skin editor themselves. It's not like we are cramping their style - quite the opposite in fact.

but Alex still seemed content to draw a wiggly line in the sand like this :

is allowed
making skins and sharing them the hard way (despite this being technically 'reversing' how Alex looks at it)

isn't allowed
sharing skin internal info with other users
making an application which would help users skin
financial compensation for any user skins

So, based on the stance Alex has outlined:
it's very hard for them to stop us making skins because although the skin format is cryptic - it's hardly Enigma

but what about a financially rewarded skin-trade ?

... well, they are nice guys sure, but they are also business-men who have outlined their beleif on the subject and will simply nip a possible trade in the bud with a polite IM to Klinikal and anyone else - they can point at the EULA and say "no reversing".
You can say that donations are not exactly profit, but technically/legally it is remuneration - that sets a precedent.
they may be nice guys, but they will have lawyers.

Personally, I think they should let us skin like crazy and drive up the user power of Live, skins aren't going to make Live crash - they just don't load if you do them wrong.

Perhaps Alex will comment again to better define what is and isn't allowed.

*chants mystical summoning spell*

[nebulae]

You can say that donations are not exactly profit, but technically/legally it is remuneration - that sets a precedent.
they may be nice guys, but they will have lawyers.

Hence my entire reasoning behind setting up the brutha with a brothel in Amsterdamn. He NEEDS to get laid for this work...and I ain't givin' no hand jobs.

[forge]

sorry, I like the skins, but I'm not really sure why these ones are getting such a big up - they just happen to appeal to more tastes, but the work in creating them is not more than the other guys who created skins - why is this guy so special?

not saying anything negative about him or the skins - not at all, but the other guys did a few different skins, these are just variations on a theme but just happen to have the black which loads of people seem to have been wanting judging by this thread

personally I like these, but I find them a little hard to use because I have to look harder for things

[nebulae]

Ok, so you won't be giving him a handjob? Just making sure...

[wavejumper]

what's wrong with 'metal' ? lovely skin. black is soooo passe'.

[LOFA]

sorry, I like the skins, but I'm not really sure why these ones are getting such a big up - they just happen to appeal to more tastes, but the work in creating them is not more than the other guys who created skins - why is this guy so special?

not saying anything negative about him or the skins - not at all, but the other guys did a few different skins, these are just variations on a theme but just happen to have the black which loads of people seem to have been wanting judging by this thread

personally I like these, but I find them a little hard to use because I have to look harder for things

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I simply appreciate all of the great free plug-ins on his site as well as his artisitic interpretation of the ableton gui. I am a struggling artist and I like to support others, especially when they are doing stuff that parallels my interests. Hope I wasn't trying to break any laws. If I had been able to donate it would have been because this guy rocks the house, and not for any skin.

BTW, is there any way you can put the scrolling note indicators back in the midi clip? Goblin is by far the most readable skin I have ever used, but since I do a lot of
sketching in impulse, which has a very narrow range, band of playable notes, this lack of information makes your skin unrealistic for realtime editing on the fly.

[forge]

I've just gone on to tobacco - that's actually a good skin I just discovered

[+1]

Cool Skins, Thanks..

To bad the selection colour is the same as the envelope / Makes it hard to move a selection of breakpoints...

[peeddrroo]

i agree with the above.

i've noticed that when scrolling through the different skins (in the preferences), sometimes the automation lines where the same color as the selected areas, depending on which skin was active. but once the skin is selected, the lines always have the same color as the highlighted areas.
maybe that'll give klinikal some idea of how to change that.

[pearsonart.com]

Angstrom has explained everything perfectly. I don't think we need or want any further official clarification as that might actually result in further restrictions. Let it be.

Without risking any violation, I'd like to repeat that making skins isn't terribly difficult. It IS very time consuming and I don't recommend it.

Truthfully, there are only so many variations and most have been covered now between the built-ins and custom skins floating around....certainly enough to satifsy most until Ableton officially incorporate a skin editor.

I think Klinical touched a nerve with the black skin. I completely understand. When I saw the photoshoped black gui I immediately began working on one too. Mine is taking longer as I found so many problems actually editing with it.

My opinion is that those who LOVE the black skin are more likely to be performing as DJ's at night. My intention has been to make skins I'd use myself to record and edit during the daytime - very different applications! All said, I will finish the black one and release what I hope will be useful variations (that don't step on Klinical's toes) along with some updates to existing skins I've done. When? Soon.

Meanwhile, the beta for version 6 is out. Has anyone looked at the skins available there? I'm curious about the ask format and compatibility.

[supster]

what's wrong with 'metal' ? lovely skin. black is soooo passe'.

not bad, except the contrast is too garish and bright imo.

within a couple of minutes my eyes start to freak out, within 10 i have migranes, long term usage im sure blindness would not be out of the question

this is the case with most of thier skins. and most of the people i talk to agree

its either that, and/or key functions are unreadable

to hell with just giving this guy cash: he deserves a bonafide Award for even halfway using common sense and listening to suggestions

if you cant see what you are doing, the skin is pointless.

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